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Anyone ever reported an ISP to the FCC for stability or performance issues?

 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone ever reported an ISP to the FCC for stability or performance issues?

Hi all,

I recently moved to a new house in a smaller but quickly expanding town. There is a fairly large cable ISP here TDS telecom. Only other option in the area is satellite. They offer cable internet with really good speeds generally but after a month of testing between the hours of 7PM and 11PM it has approx 15% packet loss and 50+ ms ping every single night. I have opened trouble tickets with support, bought a new cable modem had all the lines inside and outside of my house replaced etc. I think support knew what the issue was all along but kept doing things to keep me from causing them trouble. Basically it's down to their support knowing there is an issue but not fixing it. It's most likely due to over saturation in the area and there is nothing they can do about it without infrastructure upgrades. I have been chatting with neighbors and apparently they have been having internet issues in this area for a couple years now and it started when the land east of the town started to get developed. I found a link to a form on the FCC website for reporting an ISP for not providing the service they promise or other issues. https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/h...s/115002206106 I was thinking if enough of us report them they might be forced into doing something. Does anyone have any experience with reporting an ISP or any type of similar situation? The main problem I have with this whole situation is the packet loss is enough to boot me off my work VPN. I sometimes have to work oncall shifts at night and I need to have a stable internet connection.

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 07:32 AM
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Absolutely, We are currently doing the FCC with out ISP as the speeds have been awful and they claim to fix it and it is back. LAst time they fixed my issue I trusted them and I dropped 500MBs the next day, then the following day it dropped another 200MBs so from a Gigabit at a 950MBs I went to 272 -306MBs yet my upload seemed fine the whole time.
I am not the only one with this issue and the point is I don't care about the other guys issues for the most part, but I am tired of paying for something they are suppose to just flat out work and you don't have to fuss with and they cannot even get it stable.

For me I have spent countless hours trying to fix the problem on my end but there is no more I can do, so I have given the ISP several tries to resolve the issue but they don't comply.

So yes I filed with the FCC and the ISP now has to answer to the complaint and yes we do document what we do. If they cannot resolve this they we take the next step and go to the FTC.

In the end the other guys issue becomes all our issues. They go up on the service charges, they now want to send techs out for less then a hour to check my fittings and ends on the cable yet, they don't give you any reasonable reason or resolve. They just say some line issue and they tell you they will put in to the line techs and they will contact you when they have finished on the line. It is called pass it off to another.
So now that I had to file with the FCC and they again lied about calling, I will be going to the FTC after this. They do it to me they are doing it to thousands of others that I see post time and time again. The ISP only wishes that we grow tired of trying and just accept the excuses they make.
Sorry I am not that sort. You pay earning for a service that they said they can provide and they are not even reasonably close to that, I shall battle for those thousands out their that can't or won't cause they are to nice or just to lazy to attack the issues.
I I don't pay the bill they will cut me off, yest if I can't get the speed near the offered they could care less. Lets run to the policy. IF you don't pay the bill even after they cut you off they take and sue you for it do they not?

That said YES I will burn them back for the shear principal of not making it right, living up to the advertised sales pitch. Policy don't excuse them from neglecting my service with excuses. If they can take you payment and force you to pay I can take and force them to comply completely by the letter of the law.

Ever been to a skate park and it says your responsible for any accident and you sign wavers, yet they do get sued over time even though they got you to sign a waiver. IF they take cash for something they are performing something in return and it is intent.

Good Luck, As it isn't what I want to pursue but they are going to live up to their end.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 08:00 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by killeraxemannic View Post
Hi all,

I recently moved to a new house in a smaller but quickly expanding town. There is a fairly large cable ISP here TDS telecom. Only other option in the area is satellite. They offer cable internet with really good speeds generally but after a month of testing between the hours of 7PM and 11PM it has approx 15% packet loss and 50+ ms ping every single night. I have opened trouble tickets with support, bought a new cable modem had all the lines inside and outside of my house replaced etc. I think support knew what the issue was all along but kept doing things to keep me from causing them trouble. Basically it's down to their support knowing there is an issue but not fixing it. It's most likely due to over saturation in the area and there is nothing they can do about it without infrastructure upgrades. I have been chatting with neighbors and apparently they have been having internet issues in this area for a couple years now and it started when the land east of the town started to get developed. I found a link to a form on the FCC website for reporting an ISP for not providing the service they promise or other issues. https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/h...s/115002206106 I was thinking if enough of us report them they might be forced into doing something. Does anyone have any experience with reporting an ISP or any type of similar situation? The main problem I have with this whole situation is the packet loss is enough to boot me off my work VPN. I sometimes have to work oncall shifts at night and I need to have a stable internet connection.
Quote: Originally Posted by BinaryBummer View Post
Absolutely, We are currently doing the FCC with out ISP as the speeds have been awful and they claim to fix it and it is back. LAst time they fixed my issue I trusted them and I dropped 500MBs the next day, then the following day it dropped another 200MBs so from a Gigabit at a 950MBs I went to 272 -306MBs yet my upload seemed fine the whole time.
I am not the only one with this issue and the point is I don't care about the other guys issues for the most part, but I am tired of paying for something they are suppose to just flat out work and you don't have to fuss with and they cannot even get it stable.

For me I have spent countless hours trying to fix the problem on my end but there is no more I can do, so I have given the ISP several tries to resolve the issue but they don't comply.

So yes I filed with the FCC and the ISP now has to answer to the complaint and yes we do document what we do. If they cannot resolve this they we take the next step and go to the FTC.

In the end the other guys issue becomes all our issues. They go up on the service charges, they now want to send techs out for less then a hour to check my fittings and ends on the cable yet, they don't give you any reasonable reason or resolve. They just say some line issue and they tell you they will put in to the line techs and they will contact you when they have finished on the line. It is called pass it off to another.
So now that I had to file with the FCC and they again lied about calling, I will be going to the FTC after this. They do it to me they are doing it to thousands of others that I see post time and time again. The ISP only wishes that we grow tired of trying and just accept the excuses they make.
Sorry I am not that sort. You pay earning for a service that they said they can provide and they are not even reasonably close to that, I shall battle for those thousands out their that can't or won't cause they are to nice or just to lazy to attack the issues.
I I don't pay the bill they will cut me off, yest if I can't get the speed near the offered they could care less. Lets run to the policy. IF you don't pay the bill even after they cut you off they take and sue you for it do they not?

That said YES I will burn them back for the shear principal of not making it right, living up to the advertised sales pitch. Policy don't excuse them from neglecting my service with excuses. If they can take you payment and force you to pay I can take and force them to comply completely by the letter of the law.

Ever been to a skate park and it says your responsible for any accident and you sign wavers, yet they do get sued over time even though they got you to sign a waiver. IF they take cash for something they are performing something in return and it is intent.

Good Luck, As it isn't what I want to pursue but they are going to live up to their end.
Yup! Same here.

So almost Certainly what your issue is your Node that services your area is Over-saturated. Its EXTREMELY Common with Cable Broadband ISP's. Out here in Vegas, Cox Communication is our ISP (Fitting name btw), and they are BY FAR the better option. Our only other choices are satellite or DSL with Century Link (And Century Link's Service is Literally THE WORST I HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED, EVER!)

However, we keep having instances happen, even before the Quarantine, but now its even more common after the quarantine, where They simply put way too many Circuits onto One Node. These Nodes are typically only supposed to handle a few Hundred Simultaneous connections. For this reason they are expandable. Well Cox, and other ISP's like to squeeze more out of their profit margin by overloading this node anywhere from 5% to 25% over Spec. A lot of the times even as much as 25% will be fine, because its rare that all of their customers would be using their connections at once. But within the last 2 years, they seem to have been overloading the Node even further, although I no longer have a friend working inside the company, so I do not know what they view as acceptable now. What I can say is that it is general practice for them to knowingly over-saturate the node, and keep it that way until either an FCC Complaint comes in from a User that they feel will follow through with the process, OR Until they get so many complaints from an overwhelming percentage of their customer base that they finally feel that it is worth paying the money to expand the node. Literally the day they expand the node you will know right away. You will go from having Packet loss over 10% to having packet loss below 1%, and your speeds will almost always be close to what you pay for.

We have a client right now who is paying for Business Broadband. Normally they separate out their Business Nodes with their Residential Nodes. However this particular Business Plaza is literally directly behind a neighborhood. This is a Tax Preparation company, so they continued to work through the quarantine they just don't allow any clients onto their property, and have their clients send in all Tax information over the internet. Well right when the Quarantine hit, and the people in the neighborhood behind his business started hammering their internet during the day (times when a good portion of the neighborhood would have presumably been at work before the quarantine hit) his Internet INSTANTLY took a Nose dive. We measured Packet loss up to 34% at the worst time of day, which was right around 10am, and at Best we were getting 12% packet loss, with up speeds that were abysmal! We are talking 0.1Mbps Up on average, and the Downs weren't much better at around 3Mbps on average, but sometimes also dropping down to .3Mbps. And as is the nature with Over-saturation, pings were all over the place, we were capturing jitter of over 700ms. So that means at best we were seeing around 40ms, which was usable, all the way to 740ms literally the next received packet. It was bad.

We ended up making an FCC Complaint, and Cox is responding by Expanding the Node, but they site the Pandemic as a reason for them not being able to get it done in less than 2 months time (When normally we would be looking at a weekend), and we are waiting to see if the FCC is going to accept that or not. My clients lawyers are involved now. We obviously couldn't let him stay in that position though, so we were able to convince Century Link (Yes my arch enemy, but thats with their DSL, Their Fiber is not half bad) to Get him up and running on Fiber, which luckily had already been run to the Building next door, so they just had to extend it over to my clients building, and they got that all done in less than a week, and got him live. So its pretty sad when literally the worst ISP in the area is able to run Fiber before Cox can fix an Over-saturated Node...

Anyways, reporting with the FCC can have mixed results in my experience. I have never had to do it for myself, I have only ever helped clients report, and twice so far it has ended with the Client receiving the Speed that was initially promised, the other 3 times the ISP has either gotten off, or gotten off with a fine, but the service hasn't improved and we were forced to switch to Fiber. Not sure what will happen this time, but this whole process can take quite a while to complete, at least in my experience.

I hope that you have a much better luck than we have. Especially because it sounds like you really don't have another option.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses guys. I think I am going to go ahead with the complaint. I have ping data showing latency spikes every day going back over a month in my Unifi console. I also have screenshots of packet loss I took every day for a few weeks with ping plotter. Should be some good data to start with. I also am on an app called nextdoor. It's basically neighborhood forums. Going to try to have everyone else in the area report the ISP to the FCC as well. See if we can get a bunch of FCC complaints in the neighborhood. Maybe that will force them to do something about it.


I actually found another small provider in the area. They are a wireless ISP with a tower in the town over. I ended up talking to one of their techs and he said that he wouldn't even want to set up service because their tower is overloaded but they are well aware of the internet issues in the town. They are rapidly expanding in the area because of all the issues people are having with TDS cable and are going to try to get their infrastructure expanded and solid in the next month or so. He said they would call me once they are ready for more customers.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 08:09 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by killeraxemannic View Post
Thanks for the responses guys. I think I am going to go ahead with the complaint. I have ping data showing latency spikes every day going back over a month in my Unifi console. I also have screenshots of packet loss I took every day for a few weeks with ping plotter. Should be some good data to start with. I also am on an app called nextdoor. It's basically neighborhood forums. Going to try to have everyone else in the area report the ISP to the FCC as well. See if we can get a bunch of FCC complaints in the neighborhood. Maybe that will force them to do something about it.


I actually found another small provider in the area. They are a wireless ISP with a tower in the town over. I ended up talking to one of their techs and he said that he wouldn't even want to set up service because their tower is overloaded but they are well aware of the internet issues in the town. They are rapidly expanding in the area because of all the issues people are having with TDS cable and are going to try to get their infrastructure expanded and solid in the next month or so. He said they would call me once they are ready for more customers.
Sweet. I would also be on the lookout for Fiber Providers. If you can get a Fiber line ran to your house, Internet Troubles are Over! LOL! Obviously thats not realistic everywhere, so I would definitely pursue your FCC Complaint. Especially if you can get at least a few to join you, you might just have an easier time of it. Keep in mind, the FCC are receiving a lot of complaints right now, so to get any kind of resolution, you are going to need to be both patient and extremely persistent. But if you can follow through and force them to respond to the complaint, especially with the data you have collected (I Would Continue to collect Packet Data and Ping times btw) you should be able to force their hand. Literally all they have to do is expand their node in your area. They might also have to run a new Circuit to the node, but if they do, that is their fault, they should have run more than enough to cover the next several years when they first ran their node to your area. So don't take their excuses, don't feel bad, and stay persistent as hell, while at the same time remaining patient and not giving up. I would love to follow your adventure if you want to keep posting about it here, I will definitely stay engaged and interested!

Good Luck!

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-14-2020, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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TDS actually is trying to run fiber to the area but I heard it was a few years off still. There are no excuses but I sort of do understand what happened here... The population of my town went from 3000 people to 8500 people in about 10 years. Mostly due to it being a small town but really close to major cities. If you want to move out of the city into a small town it's one of the first places you look in my area. Some developers came in and built 3 huge neighborhoods east of town that combined are larger than the rest of the town. So infrastructure really hasn't caught up yet.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Update - Tech came out today. He's actually a contractor for a bunch of ISP's in the area and seemed like he was really experienced. He said that although this town is pretty overloaded there are lots of little towns around that are worse. He started to do some troubleshooting and found that there was AC power interference in my cable line. He traced it back and found out it goes past the line tap and is actually somewhere upstream. So potentially my whole neighborhood or at least my street has an issue with AC power interference in the cable line. They are sending their line maintenance team out Monday to try to narrow it down further and fix it.

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 05:18 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by killeraxemannic View Post
Update - Tech came out today. He's actually a contractor for a bunch of ISP's in the area and seemed like he was really experienced. He said that although this town is pretty overloaded there are lots of little towns around that are worse. He started to do some troubleshooting and found that there was AC power interference in my cable line. He traced it back and found out it goes past the line tap and is actually somewhere upstream. So potentially my whole neighborhood or at least my street has an issue with AC power interference in the cable line. They are sending their line maintenance team out Monday to try to narrow it down further and fix it.
Awesome man! That is usually something that is considered when they first run the lines, but I am glad your tech figured this out. Fingers Crossed that they follow through for you!

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