*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread - Page 1044 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread

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post #10431 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by moorhen2 View Post
You don't state what Ram kit you are using, you need to run a memory specific stability test, ie GSAT. HCI or Ramtest which I use and tests the cache as well. Also make sure you have the Mem OK Switch in the Disabled position on the mobo.
Well the kit shouldn't be relevant in this scenario as I firmly believe the issue lies in the motherboard and how it trains. I've tested two different kits, 4000 CL19 and 3600 CL16 (G.Skill). I'm currently running G.Skill F4-360016D-32GTZN. Mem OK is disabled, MRC Fast Boot also disabled (to ensure training). I did also state that I already confirmed GSAT stability (which, as I've understood it, primarily tests the stability of dram voltage and timings). The issue lies in VCCIO and training (Karhu and Prime95 112k in-place non-avx both test this and confirm instability in my case, due to bad training). I'm sure the XI Apex does exceptionally well with 2x8GB sticks but dual rank is very, very different. There's a lot of stuff the motherboard does on auto-training that has to be manually tweaked to get it to post properly at high frequencies (generally setting things to tight).


Quote: Originally Posted by Imprezzion View Post
Hol' up. Your tRCD and tRP are lower than your CAS? Well, there's probably your problem lol.

Try 4000Mhz 15-16-16-31-350-CR2 or 15-17-17 if it's immediately unstable. Use... I'd estimate... 1.225v SA and 1.175v IO and 1.45-1.50v DRAM? That would be a clean starting point.

Training memory is a difficult process that I don't fully understand but understand enough to know and also experience in my own process of tweaking RTL/IO that everything affects it. Not just one specific voltage or timing but rather a combination of everything together.

For example with tWR 14 tCWL 16 tWRPRE 34 my RAM will not properly train. RTL is off by at least 5 or 6. Setting it even lower at for example tWR 12 tCWL 14 tWRPRE 30 it trains fine. My RAM also tends to fail completely in locking / training if tRDWR or tWRRD is set too tight. It will run "stable" and not error per sè but have terrible performance and missed training.
It looks weird sure but it's not uncommon for B-die and there's no issue with it - I've seen plenty similar cases, like I said all the timings in the picture are 1 hour GSAT stable. The same issue persists even with 18-18-18-40 and very safe, stable secondary timings. 4000MHz is very, very demanding even with a really good IMC and motherboard. Buildzoid has a video of him overclocking a pair of 16GB Corsair Dominator sticks where he mentions only one of his motherboards actually capable of pushing it above 3866, an MSI ITX board that just handles training well.


The kit I have is capable of a lot tighter timings than what the pictures show but set most things a lot safer just to find VCCIO stability first, hoping that'd alleviate any difficulty training.

Last edited by Apothysis; 11-08-2019 at 11:02 AM.
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post #10432 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 11:49 AM
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Do you have Trace catering enabled ? and what about MCH Full Check.

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post #10433 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by moorhen2 View Post
Do you have Trace catering enabled ? and what about MCH Full Check.

Trace centering is disabled and MCH Full Check is on auto.


I believe I may have found the cause: Maximus Tweak. When I initially started I had to use Mode 2 to get a post at 3800. It seems mode 2 pushes RTL a lot lower than mode 1 and at some point while lowering timings I must've passed a threshold where Mode 2 became unstable and Mode 1 can post. Mode 1 wouldn't post @ 3800 18/18/40 but both posts and trains correctly at 3800 15/15/34.. I can't say for certain yet but I'm testing stability and it seems good so far at very reasonable IO/SA voltages.
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post #10434 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:20 PM
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Well yeah, it can work, i mean some DDR3 ran stuff like 2133 CL9-11-8 for example, but i've hardly ever seen anyone get good stability or good results with it.

I'm probably underestimating the extra load / diffculty a 16GB DIMM will give a board.

As for RTL, i thought you still had it all on Auto. It's never a good idea to use a manual or "Maximus Tweak" (or as my board calls it RTL Optimization: Enabled) before knowing a specific setting wil boot.
I noticed a RTL Initial of 65 and a IO-L Initial of 4 with stock 21 offset is pretty much bootable and trainable on any frequency / timing so maybe try that?

I wonder in your case what would be more efficient. ~3800 CL15 with high voltages and high(er) secondaries or do what i did on my 7700K which couldn't handle anything over 3200Mhz and just run like, 3000Mhz with 11-11-11-28-270-CR1 with super low secondaries.

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post #10435 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Imprezzion View Post
Well yeah, it can work, i mean some DDR3 ran stuff like 2133 CL9-11-8 for example, but i've hardly ever seen anyone get good stability or good results with it.

I'm probably underestimating the extra load / diffculty a 16GB DIMM will give a board.

As for RTL, i thought you still had it all on Auto. It's never a good idea to use a manual or "Maximus Tweak" (or as my board calls it RTL Optimization: Enabled) before knowing a specific setting wil boot.
I noticed a RTL Initial of 65 and a IO-L Initial of 4 with stock 21 offset is pretty much bootable and trainable on any frequency / timing so maybe try that?

I wonder in your case what would be more efficient. ~3800 CL15 with high voltages and high(er) secondaries or do what i did on my 7700K which couldn't handle anything over 3200Mhz and just run like, 3000Mhz with 11-11-11-28-270-CR1 with super low secondaries.

Well right now it seems very, very stable in both GSAT (was before as well), Prime95 IMC (112k in-place non-avx) and Karhu (used to error at 7% due to bad training) and the only thing I changed was Maximus Tweak mode. The problem is that I sort of "had" to choose Mode 2 to get a post, and apparently change to Mode 1 once the primaries got low enough. Hard to know before-hand but I'm cry-laughing about how much time I wasted testing combinations of VCCIO/VCCSA when it was seemingly just this 1 setting.
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post #10436 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 02:06 PM
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Maximus Tweak Mode Auto is exactly the same as Mode 1, no timings change, Mode 2 only changes the RTL D1's and some of the Tertiaries.
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post #10437 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 02:25 AM
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Newbie question, does the IMC train values that are hidden from the BIOS/ASrock timing configurator?

I had a settings that were 100% stable over many days. Even tested it extensively up to 55°C with fans off. Zero errors through Prime, GSAT, Karhu, etc. Thought I was finally done.

Now suddenly the exact same settings are no longer stable. Voltages are low, far too low to cause degradation. RTL/IOL training is the same with good spacing and no irregularities. Temperatures are ok too. I think its a training issue because sometimes the stability seems to "come back" after a reboot.
Full Check is on and Fast Boot is off... should I try to lock in the settings via Fast Boot?
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post #10438 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 02:41 AM
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What other improvement tips will there be?
How much can I sell my current kit?
Ordered 2 sets https://www.gskill.com/product/165/1...35V16GB-(2x8GB)
https://www.regard.ru/catalog/tovar309146.htm
18000 rubles ~ $ 280 not bad! This is a glitch store apparently, but I managed to
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post #10439 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 04:55 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by BLUuuE View Post
Finally got 4000 15-19-19 stable on my Ballistix Elite 4000 18-19-19 kit.
Took a lot more VCCSA/VCCIO than I expected, which probably means my 9600k has a weak IMC.

Spoiler!


I also restarted and did a quick HCI MemTest run and it passed 100% so it should be pretty stable.

Spoiler!
Your SA and IO are higher, probably because of Micron E-die.

When tightening the timing of 4400MT/s, I need more than 1.4v. Such as 4400 16 22 22 42. SAMSUNG B die is about 1.25v at the same frequency.

I have a good CJR, it seems to be barely satisfactory.
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Last edited by kongasdf; 11-10-2019 at 05:04 AM.
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post #10440 of 10569 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 06:12 AM
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4000 1T Stock timings and voltages. Now to play.
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Asus Z390 Maximus XI Extreme.
Asus Z390 Maximus XI Apex.
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Intel I9 9900K. C Stepping P0 revision.
Intel I9 9900K. (new) D Stepping R0 revision.
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