*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread - Page 1183 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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post #11821 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 05:40 PM
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I have no idea if mine are optimal but I run offset 24 with 65/65/1/1 initials and that trains perfectly on 60/61/6/7 with my specific clocks.

Performance is also way better then Auto which is more like 71/71/9/10.

I did do some testing with lower Initials for example but any combination of Initial and Offset lower than 65 would either not boot or miss training and go to like 59/64/5/9 or something wierd.

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post #11822 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 05:56 PM
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*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread

I upgraded my gaming rig from a 3930k and this is my first time overclocking DDR4 RAM - pretty happy with the results! May I please get your input on how to push this kit further?

CPU: 9900KS @ 5Ghz 1.27v (LLC5, 1.148v load) Prime95/Realbench stable
Motherboard: Apex XI BIOS 1302
RAM: Team T-Force 4133Mhz 18-18-18-38 @ 4200Mhz 16-17-17-39 1.45v (B-Die, A2 PCB) TXKD416G4133HC18FDC01
VCCIO/SA: 1.25v
Cache: 4.8Ghz
Cooling: 280MM AIO, 2x 140mm fans blowing directly against RAM/VRM
Config type: 24/7 stable gaming

Note: Lowering TRAS, TRP, TRCD individually even one notch fails Karthu RAMtest, even at 4133Mhz with 1.55 VDIMM. I would prefer to keep SA/IO at 1.25v or less. As long as I'm not hurting the IMC I'm willing to pump VDIMM.

This config passed GSAT (1hr) and Karthu RAMtest 10000%. Will run additional stability tests overnight.
[EDIT] just passed one hour of TM5 extreme preset [/EDIT]
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post #11823 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 05:59 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
Interesting. Do you have any advice on how to set them?
RTLs are measured during post, so the extent they can be lowered, and still pass POST, will depend on the margins in trace length/path and the ram ICs layout. If you manually change these to bad values you will have to clrcmos to get back into bios unless your board has a safeboot function or MemOkay reset. (Q-codes like 49, 55 will be common on most boards when these cannot train).
If your board will actually allow you to set these (many won't - and you'll know first try), begin with the values Auto determines for RTL and IOL on the populated channels at the stick's base frequency (SPD, not XMP) and note the stepping in each channel. Lower these as sets, leaving all other timings on Auto, eg, you must lower the RTL and IOL for each channel at the same time and maintain any stepping: so if SPD posts with say 60/61 and 10/10 or 10/11, lower the rtls manually say to 59/60 8/8 9/9, 8/9, 9/10, add some VDIMM (25-100mV at a time) and see if it will post. Once you understand the behavior of the sticks and mobo at SPD (when you lower rtl and iol) hold those constant and see how far, if at all the freq can increase with those RTLs and IOLs.

Another approach is to find your best high freq and timing settings, then attempt to lower the RTLs and IOLs in the same stepping until it fails to post (then clrcmos). Every other timing is dependent on the round trip time (RTL) so this can get tricky is ferreting out the lowest RTLs a timing set is compatible with.

Lastly, if the bios has what's called an RTL init, or RTL offset (or both). You can change th eoffset value - but remember it is an offset - the operating value is the offset + value, so check that this actually changes performance. The Init value can be lowered - thre's a formula I have to find around here for setting this in an ideal, but rather conservative manner - it has never improved performance or lowered RTLs for me.

RTLs and IOLs generally increase with frequency, eg; rtls for 3600 will be lower than 4000, but much of that scaling is related to the working CAS at the frequency.

Be advised: RTLs and IOLs are the ultimate rabbit hole. Be prepared to be humbled by tuning these measured values, but many ram/board combos have margins you can capitalize on.
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post #11824 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 09:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Scorpion667 View Post
I upgraded my gaming rig from a 3930k and this is my first time overclocking DDR4 RAM - pretty happy with the results! May I please get your input on how to push this kit further?

CPU: 9900KS @ 5Ghz 1.27v (LLC5, 1.148v load) Prime95/Realbench stable
Motherboard: Apex XI BIOS 1302
RAM: Team T-Force 4133Mhz 18-18-18-38 @ 4200Mhz 16-17-17-39 1.45v (B-Die, A2 PCB) TXKD416G4133HC18FDC01
VCCIO/SA: 1.25v
Cache: 4.8Ghz
Cooling: 280MM AIO, 2x 140mm fans blowing directly against RAM/VRM
Config type: 24/7 stable gaming

Note: Lowering TRAS, TRP, TRCD individually even one notch fails Karthu RAMtest, even at 4133Mhz with 1.55 VDIMM. I would prefer to keep SA/IO at 1.25v or less. As long as I'm not hurting the IMC I'm willing to pump VDIMM.

This config passed GSAT (1hr) and Karthu RAMtest 10000%. Will run additional stability tests overnight.
[EDIT] just passed one hour of TM5 extreme preset [/EDIT]
SA under 1.6V won't hurt anything. Just don't let IO/SA exceed 1.5V at the same time.

My setting is here. VDIMM 1.54, IO 1.35, SA 1.53.
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post #11825 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 10:18 PM
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*Official* Intel DDR4 24/7 Memory Stability Thread

Quote: Originally Posted by OLDFATSHEEP View Post
SA under 1.6V won't hurt anything. Just don't let IO/SA exceed 1.5V at the same time.

My setting is here. VDIMM 1.54, IO 1.35, SA 1.53.
Thank you. I will consider increasing IO/SA voltage if I can prove it helps with this particular kit.

Has anyone tried the Gskill 4000 cl15 2x8GB non-RGB kit?

https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-16gb-2...82E16820232968

Does someone have recommendations for a bleeding edge retail kit? 2x8GB ideally but I would consider a 4x8GB kit and binning for the top two sticks


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post #11826 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 10:59 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Scorpion667 View Post
I upgraded my gaming rig from a 3930k and this is my first time overclocking DDR4 RAM - pretty happy with the results! May I please get your input on how to push this kit further?

CPU: 9900KS @ 5Ghz 1.27v (LLC5, 1.148v load) Prime95/Realbench stable
Motherboard: Apex XI BIOS 1302
RAM: Team T-Force 4133Mhz 18-18-18-38 @ 4200Mhz 16-17-17-39 1.45v (B-Die, A2 PCB) TXKD416G4133HC18FDC01
VCCIO/SA: 1.25v
Cache: 4.8Ghz
Cooling: 280MM AIO, 2x 140mm fans blowing directly against RAM/VRM
Config type: 24/7 stable gaming

Note: Lowering TRAS, TRP, TRCD individually even one notch fails Karthu RAMtest, even at 4133Mhz with 1.55 VDIMM. I would prefer to keep SA/IO at 1.25v or less. As long as I'm not hurting the IMC I'm willing to pump VDIMM.

This config passed GSAT (1hr) and Karthu RAMtest 10000%. Will run additional stability tests overnight.
[EDIT] just passed one hour of TM5 extreme preset [/EDIT]
Looking at your comments you might want to try 1T to reduce the SA/IO
I have the Gene, not the Apex alas, and I'm using the 1401 bios which I assume is similar between the boards https://www.overclock.net/forum/28366738-post11717.html
Tried a HyperX 4000C19 kit also and it ran on the identical settings but with errors
I wouldn't be surprised if your kit runs much better than mine on your Apex
I removed the ram water cooling today and tested a few kits but none ran as well as the G.Skill 4400/C19s I've been running and they didn't even test stable without the water cooling
Once they hit 40c they started to error
The low latency 3600 G.Skill kits seem popular and reasonable value

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post #11827 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 11:03 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Scorpion667 View Post
Thank you. I will consider increasing IO/SA voltage if I can prove it helps with this particular kit.

Has anyone tried the Gskill 4000 cl15 2x8GB non-RGB kit?

https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-16gb-2...82E16820232968

Does someone have recommendations for a bleeding edge retail kit? 2x8GB ideally but I would consider a 4x8GB kit and binning for the top two sticks


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I haven't tried this non-RGB kit, but I will definitely go for the RGB kit since they're A2 PCB, which is good for 4800+ Freq.

3600C15, 4000C15, 4133C17,4266C17, 4400C18 are all good kits from Gskill. You can also consider Ballistix Max 4400 if you would try 5000+.

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post #11828 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 02:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CptSpig View Post
Can you set them all to auto and post up the RLT's and IO's so JP can give his advice. JP is a memory Guru....

These are my default RTL/IOLs:


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post #11829 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 04:37 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aontaigh View Post
These are my default RTL/IOLs:

Just as a quick test, leave all on Auto and only change the RTL Initial to a lower value like, 65 (they are 67 now) and see if that drops the overall D1 values. Go lower on Initial untill it doesn't boot or misses training if D1 is more then 1 value apart. Go back to the last successful one, then raise offset by 1, check D1 again for training, pick highest working offset with lowest possible initials. This is a quick and dirty improvement over stock Auto.

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post #11830 of 11973 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 08:28 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aontaigh View Post
These are my default RTL/IOLs:

JP posted this above.


RTLs are measured during post, so the extent they can be lowered, and still pass POST, will depend on the margins in trace length/path and the ram ICs layout. If you manually change these to bad values you will have to clrcmos to get back into bios unless your board has a safeboot function or MemOkay reset. (Q-codes like 49, 55 will be common on most boards when these cannot train).
If your board will actually allow you to set these (many won't - and you'll know first try), begin with the values Auto determines for RTL and IOL on the populated channels at the stick's base frequency (SPD, not XMP) and note the stepping in each channel. Lower these as sets, leaving all other timings on Auto, eg, you must lower the RTL and IOL for each channel at the same time and maintain any stepping: so if SPD posts with say 60/61 and 10/10 or 10/11, lower the rtls manually say to 59/60 8/8 9/9, 8/9, 9/10, add some VDIMM (25-100mV at a time) and see if it will post. Once you understand the behavior of the sticks and mobo at SPD (when you lower rtl and iol) hold those constant and see how far, if at all the freq can increase with those RTLs and IOLs.

Another approach is to find your best high freq and timing settings, then attempt to lower the RTLs and IOLs in the same stepping until it fails to post (then clrcmos). Every other timing is dependent on the round trip time (RTL) so this can get tricky is ferreting out the lowest RTLs a timing set is compatible with.

Lastly, if the bios has what's called an RTL init, or RTL offset (or both). You can change th eoffset value - but remember it is an offset - the operating value is the offset + value, so check that this actually changes performance. The Init value can be lowered - thre's a formula I have to find around here for setting this in an ideal, but rather conservative manner - it has never improved performance or lowered RTLs for me.

RTLs and IOLs generally increase with frequency, eg; rtls for 3600 will be lower than 4000, but much of that scaling is related to the working CAS at the frequency.

Be advised: RTLs and IOLs are the ultimate rabbit hole. Be prepared to be humbled by tuning these measured values, but many ram/board combos have margins you can capitalize on.
Enough rambling from me.

CptSpig: Try lowering (tRTP) to 6 and raising (tRAS) to 38, (tWTR) to 8. reboot and check your RLT's and IO's.

X299 RIG
(19 items)
X99 RIG
(17 items)
CPU
i9-7980XE
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ASUS ROG RAMPAGE VI APEX LGA2066 DDR4 M.2 X299 EATX Motherboard
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2080ti Founders Edition with 380w Bios
RAM
G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Model F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK
Hard Drive
Samsung SSD 960 EVO NVMe M.2 500GB
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Samsung SSD 850 Pro 2.5" SATAIII 512 GB
Power Supply
Corsair AX1500i Digital ATX Power Supply
Cooling
EXC-800 Portable 800W Recirculating Liquid Chiller
Cooling
Phobya G-Changer Xtreme NOVA 1080 radiator 60mm - Full Copper
Cooling
CPU-390I Water Block, Nickel Top
Cooling
(1)-EK-XRES 140 and (2)-DDC 3.2 PWM Elite
Cooling
Bitspower Lotan
Case
PrimoChill Praxis Wet bench
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
Monitor
Dell Aleinware AW3418DW
Keyboard
Corsair Gaming K70 RGB Mechanical Gaming Keyboard — Cherry MX Red
Mouse
M65 PRO RGB FPS Gaming Mouse — Black
Mouse
SteelSeries QcK XXL
Audio
Corsair Vengeance 2100 wireless
CPU
i7-6950X Processor
Motherboard
MSI X99A GODLIKE GAMING CARBON
GPU
Nvidia TITAN X Pascal
RAM
Corsair Dominator Platinum Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 Memory Kit
Hard Drive
Samsung SSD 960 EVO NVMe M.2 500GB
Hard Drive
Samsung SSD 850 PRO 2.5" SATA III 512GB
Power Supply
EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G2 Power Supply
Cooling
EK-XLC Predator 360 (incl. QDC) with DDC3.2 PWM pump upgrade with EK-DDC Heatsink Housing - Black
Cooling
EKWB EK-FC Titan X Pascal - Acetal+Nickel
Cooling
Koolance EXC-800 Portable 800W Recirculating Liquid Chiller
Case
PrimoChill Praxis Wet bench
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
Monitor
ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q Gaming Monitor - 27" 2K WQHD (2560 x 1440) IPS, overclockable 165Hz, G-SYNC
Keyboard
Corsair Gaming K70 RGB Mechanical Gaming Keyboard — Cherry MX Red
Mouse
M65 PRO RGB FPS Gaming Mouse — Black
Mouse
SteelSeries QcK XXL
Audio
Corsair Vengeance 2100 wireless
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Last edited by CptSpig; 03-26-2020 at 02:39 PM.
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