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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 09:29 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by jfriend00 View Post
If you're actually getting 1.348V delivered to the CPU and that's not stable, then your chip likely just won't do 5.0 or your stability issue is due to something else (VCCIO, VCCSA, memory, etc...). According to silicon lottery, there certainly are i7-9700k chips that won't do 5.0, though many will and all will do 4.9 on all cores with proper cooling and settings. As you can see in my sig, mine does 5.0 with a non-AVX load at 1.275V and an AVX load at 1.313V.

Do you have all core stability at 4.9 at a reasonable voltage? If not, perhaps you have a bad chip and should RMA.
It is getting 1.330 ~ 1.348 bsaed on HWinfo, I do not have any tools to measure and confirm if that is actually the case I rely on the VR VOUT information. It should around that ball park figure as I've selected 1.360 as a fixed voltage with LLC on 'medium' it should be drooping around that value unless I am mistaken and it is getting significantly way lower.

I've also tried to run at 2133Mhz on the memory (XMP profile disabled ) while I was testing 5.0Ghz but still raised the VCCIO/VCCSA to eliminate that factor.

I have all core stability at 4.9Ghz but I have not tuned that for the lowest voltage possible it hovers around 1.280~1.303 and I left it there for now.

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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 11:00 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EarlZ View Post
With hwinfo under VR VOUT and taking a look at the maximum recorded reading, why is something wrong ?
Voltage spikes that you are referencing can't be measured by sensors. They require an oscillioscope as these spikes happen in microseconds.
The VR VOUT is simply the base (constant) voltage that is an average from around that time. For smaller loads (like AVX / fma3 disabled), then that's fine and you're right.

The spikes are erratic and very fast. And these spikes get worse when you combine high amps draw with high levels of loadline calibration.
Using Ultra Extreme loadline with small FFT FMA3 (or AVX) prime95 (with lowering bios voltage) to make the same VR VOUT as a higher bios voltage with more vdroop (With LLC=Turbo) would cause a massive drop in stability. Elmor tested this and with small FFT FMA3, he actually needed the same bios voltage with LLC8 (Gigabyte=Ultra Extreme), as with LLC6 (Gigabyte=Turbo) for the same stability, even though the VR VOUT, amps and temps were MUCH MUCH higher (VR VOUT+LLC6=1.078v, VR VOUT+LLC8= VR VOUT 1.141v).

FMA3 small FFT prime95 puts far too much load on the VRM's to allow stability with a flat loadline. But an oscilloscope is needed to see what's going on.

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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by EarlZ View Post
I have all core stability at 4.9Ghz but I have not tuned that for the lowest voltage possible it hovers around 1.280~1.303 and I left it there for now.
It sounds like you just have a chip that doesn't want to do 5.0.

[email protected] (-1 AVX offset) on ASRock Z390 Taichi with Noctua NH-D15 air cooler
CPU offset voltage of -25mv, runs VRVout 1.240-1.313V on full AVX load, 1.225-1.275V on non-AVX load
2x8GB [email protected] at 1.45V, G.Skill F4-3733C17Q-32GTZKK (XMP rated [email protected])
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 12:37 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
Voltage spikes that you are referencing can't be measured by sensors. They require an oscillioscope as these spikes happen in microseconds.
The VR VOUT is simply the base (constant) voltage that is an average from around that time. For smaller loads (like AVX / fma3 disabled), then that's fine and you're right.

The spikes are erratic and very fast. And these spikes get worse when you combine high amps draw with high levels of loadline calibration.
Using Ultra Extreme loadline with small FFT FMA3 (or AVX) prime95 (with lowering bios voltage) to make the same VR VOUT as a higher bios voltage with more vdroop (With LLC=Turbo) would cause a massive drop in stability. Elmor tested this and with small FFT FMA3, he actually needed the same bios voltage with LLC8 (Gigabyte=Ultra Extreme), as with LLC6 (Gigabyte=Turbo) for the same stability, even though the VR VOUT, amps and temps were MUCH MUCH higher (VR VOUT+LLC6=1.078v, VR VOUT+LLC8= VR VOUT 1.141v).

FMA3 small FFT prime95 puts far too much load on the VRM's to allow stability with a flat loadline. But an oscilloscope is needed to see what's going on.

I honestly do not know if they are called voltage spike, I dont have a good terminology for them and I apologize for that. What I do see is for example my load maxes at 1.303v as per VR VOUT, the moment I stop Prime95 It will show me a max reading of 1.367v if they are not called voltage spikes what are they called ?

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Last edited by EarlZ; 02-07-2019 at 12:44 AM.
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 12:37 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by jfriend00 View Post
It sounds like you just have a chip that doesn't want to do 5.0.
Sounds about right which I was able to establish on the first post

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Last edited by EarlZ; 02-07-2019 at 12:44 AM.
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 12:47 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EarlZ View Post
I honestly do not know if they are called voltage spike, I dont have a good terminology for them and I apologize for that. What I do see is for example my load maxes at 1.303v as per VR VOUT, the moment I stop Prime95 It will show me a max reading of 1.367v if they are not called voltage spikes what are they called ?
This doesn't happen when using manual voltage so I don't know.
this NEVER happens with manual voltages.

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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 12:56 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
This doesn't happen when using manual voltage so I don't know.
this NEVER happens with manual voltages.
I now see where the confusion is, sorry if did not indicate that I was using adaptive voltage during that time.

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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 03:44 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EarlZ View Post
I now see where the confusion is, sorry if did not indicate that I was using adaptive voltage during that time.

I had trouble with everything until I went from adaptive to manual.
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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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i7-9700k @ 5.1GHz

Here's my i7-9700k overclock for 5.1GHz
  • ASRock Z390 Taichi motherboard
  • 5.1GHz
  • Noctua NH-D15 air cooler with dual fans
  • AVX offset -2 (to keep temps down)
  • Adaptive voltage with +35mv offset
  • Stress test is Prime95/Blend both with and without AVX instructions enabled
  • Observed VRVout voltages 1.328-1.391V without AVX load, 1.289-1.400V with AVX load
  • VCCIO = 1.18V, VCCSA 1.18V
  • Ran Prime95/Blend both with and without AVX instructions enabled
  • Max core temperatures, 92C without AVX, 100C with AVX
  • Cache multiplier at 45

Success at 5.1GHZ

After running at 5.0 for awhile (that profile is earlier in the thread), I decided to push things to see what I could do at 5.1GHz. It took +60mv offset on adaptive which results in 120mv more peak voltage to get stable at 5.1 vs. 5.0 which is a combination of the additional offset required for stability and the additional VID requested by the processor. And, consequently, the temperatures are almost 10C higher (with my air cooling). VRVout Voltages with no AVX were 1.328-1.391V. You can see how this chip takes a bunch more voltage just to get an additional 0.1GHz.

At an adaptive voltage of +30mv (no AVX), I would see Prime95 report errors (no BSOD, but not correct results). So, it needs at least the above +35mv to be stable. Temperatures are definitely higher than one would want for any sort of real use at this load (probably just the limits of air cooling).

Fail at 5.2GHz

I tried 5.2GHz. At an adaptive voltage of +60mv which resulted in about 1.406V on VRVout, Windows will boot and Prime95/blend will startup, but 1 worker gets an error in the first minute and I know temperatures would be unacceptable even at this voltage so I did not try raising the voltage even more to try to get stability.

[email protected] (-1 AVX offset) on ASRock Z390 Taichi with Noctua NH-D15 air cooler
CPU offset voltage of -25mv, runs VRVout 1.240-1.313V on full AVX load, 1.225-1.275V on non-AVX load
2x8GB 15-17-17-37[email protected] at 1.45V, G.Skill F4-3733C17Q-32GTZKK (XMP rated [email protected])
EVGA GTX 1060 6GB OC with Corsair RMx 750W power supply
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Last edited by jfriend00; 02-08-2019 at 12:40 AM.
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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 01:59 PM
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Would raising the VCCIO/SA voltage help in idle stability or that is purely vcore ?

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