9900k@5GHz Stable w/ Dynamic VCore, Unstable w/ Higher Static VCore??? - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
Forum Jump: 

[email protected] Stable w/ Dynamic VCore, Unstable w/ Higher Static VCore???

 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 2
Rep: 0
[email protected] Stable w/ Dynamic VCore, Unstable w/ Higher Static VCore???

Hi guys,

I'm new to the deep dive of overclocking. I auto-OC'd my last system (6700k), but with this 9900k I'm trying to understand more of what's going on.

My question is, why would my system be stable with a dynamic VCore with +0.030v DVID, but crash the instant I start P95 (non-AVX, small FFT) with a 1.35v VCore (Turbo LLC)?

Here's my hardware:
9900k, Aorus z390 Ultra, 3200MHz @ XMP Profile 1, Custom water loop with a 360 and 240 slim rad with Vardar fans


Here's my settings under dynamic vcore (I used https://forums.bit-tech.net/index.ph...master.353729/ as a guide):

Clock multiplier: 50
AC/DC Loadline: Power Saving
LLC: Medium
Power saving features that most guides tell you to disable (C States): Auto
VCore: Normal
DVID: +0.030v

Attached are the HWINFO64 and Core Temp results while running the test for 10+ minutes

However, when I follow other guides to overclock with a static VCore, P95 (non-AVX small FFTs) crashes almost instantly on test start. I've tried up to VCore 1.35v with LLC Turbo. I disabled all the usual power saving features.

What I noticed that didn't make sense to me was that even at 1.35v with Turbo LLC the VR VOUT reading was below 1.3 volts, is that much vdroop normal for those settings?

Anyway, the system seems stable (1 hour of small FFT P95 non-AVX) with the dynamic VCore, but with the static VCore I get P95 Crashes almost instantly.

Does anybody know why that might be? And am I doing anything irresponsible with the above dynamic vcore settings that will damage my stuff?

Thanks,
Caleb
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Stats.png
Views:	70
Size:	1.07 MB
ID:	286272  


Last edited by caleb_land; 08-05-2019 at 09:58 PM. Reason: Added mention of important AC/DC Loadline Setting
caleb_land is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 08:57 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Falkentyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Riverside
Posts: 7,008
Rep: 429 (Unique: 298)
Are you trying to go from an auto+offset voltage to a fixed voltage using a different loadline?
Set your fixed voltage and loadline and save settings (do not forget to max out the power and current protection and vcore protection limits) and exit and reboot.
Go back into the BIOS.
Then choose exit and discard settings.
Then reboot to windows.

Try the stress test now.

[email protected] ghz, RX Vega 64, 32GB DDR4, Gigabyte Aorus Master, Seasonic Platinum 1000W, Corsair 760T
Alt: MSI GT73VR Throttlebook with 7820HK @ 4.7 ghz, GTX 1070 MXM TDP mod to 230W, 32 GB RAM
Falkentyne is offline  
post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 09:19 AM
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman
 
Intrud3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 435
Rep: 14 (Unique: 5)
Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
Are you trying to go from an auto+offset voltage to a fixed voltage using a different loadline?
Set your fixed voltage and loadline and save settings (do not forget to max out the power and current protection and vcore protection limits) and exit and reboot.
Go back into the BIOS.
Then choose exit and discard settings.
Then reboot to windows.

Try the stress test now.
I never knew discarding changes would be enough (to trigger the changes). I would've F10 and save and rebooted again ... or adjust loadline first, then the other values for example with a F10 and reboot in between each setting.

Good to know.

Z390 Aorus Ultra F7 | i9 9900K: HT = Off | CPU Clock Ratio = 5.2 | Uncore Ratio = 49 | AVX Offset = 0 | CPU internal AC/DC Loadline = Power Saving | Vcore Loadline Calibration = Low | Vcore = Normal | DVID = +0.120V | VR VOUT = ~1.370V | VCCIO = ~1.221V | VCCSA = ~1.248V | C-States = All Enabled | DDR (Hynix H5AN8G8NAFR-TFC A-die)= [email protected] 40.6ns @ 1.450V | Seasonic Focus Plus Platinum 850W | Acer Predator Z35P | Gigabyte Aorus 2080 Ti 11G 1935/8000 @1.049V
My Precious
(19 items)
CPU
Intel i9 9900K
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
GPU
Gigabyte Aorus 2080ti
RAM
G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200Mhz CL16
Hard Drive
Samsung 950 Pro
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 EVO
Hard Drive
Samsung 860 EVO
Hard Drive
WD 2 TB HDD
Power Supply
Seasonic 850W Platinum
Cooling
NZXT Kraken X72
Case
Corsair Crystal 570X
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
Samsung UE40D6530 40"
Monitor
Dell 2209WA
Monitor
Acer Predator Z35P
Keyboard
Corsair K70 RGB MK.2 Cherry MX Speed Low Profile
Mouse
Logitech G903
Mousepad
Logitech Powerplay
Audio
Onkyo TX-NR509 (hdmi)
▲ hide details ▲
Intrud3r is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 10:35 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Falkentyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Riverside
Posts: 7,008
Rep: 429 (Unique: 298)
Quote: Originally Posted by Intrud3r View Post
I never knew discarding changes would be enough (to trigger the changes). I would've F10 and save and rebooted again ... or adjust loadline first, then the other values for example with a F10 and reboot in between each setting.

Good to know.
The board doesn't always seem to be able to change all the settings at once. Then when you reboot a second time it actually resets everything.

I know for a fact that doing something like going from a fixed vcore at a lower core/cache multiplier (x47/x44, 1.230v) with something like loadline calibration=high already saved and used (assuming AC and DC Loadline is already at 1.6 mOhms or 160), then going into the BIOS and setting something like this:

5 ghz, x50 / x47
Vcore LLC: Standard
CPU Vcore: Auto

Then saving and exiting, is enough to make the board completely fail to POST (total lockup).
Then when you power off the board with the power switch and power it back on, it boots up like nothing even went wrong to begin with.

I actually got bored and tested the OP's settings.
5 ghz/4.7 ghz, Vcore Normal, DVID +0.030, Vcore LLC: Medium.
AC LL: 40, DC LL: 130 (this is the same as Internal Load Line=Power Saving)

Ran prime95 AVX disabled and saw a 1.236v VR VOUT.

I then loaded my saved 4.7 ghz profile (exact settings as above) and saved and rebooted into the BIOS.
Saw my CPU Vcore was being read as 1.332v (?_?) even though the bios setting was 1.230v
I exited and reentered the BIOS again without saving, and then the vcore was being read correctly as 1.236v.

I suspect the Normal DVID setting was somehow still being applied before the second reboot, but even then that doesn't even compute properly. Because 100mv > 30mv

Far more likely was that the manual voltage (1.230v) was not even being applied at all, and it applied 4.7 ghz with +30mv DVID offset from base VID, with AC/DC Loadline actually changed back to 160/160, which caused a voltage rise compared to ACLL=40 (DC Loadline is not important at all). Then when I rebooted a second time, it actually applied the manual voltage.

Suspect that's the case because I already know that 4.7 ghz with AC LL=160 and CPU Vcore=Auto reads 1.296v in BIOS. And what's 1.296v + 0.030v?

This bug doesn't happen when using Auto voltages (and then going to manual voltages) via saved profiles. Only DVID offsets seem to do this.

[email protected] ghz, RX Vega 64, 32GB DDR4, Gigabyte Aorus Master, Seasonic Platinum 1000W, Corsair 760T
Alt: MSI GT73VR Throttlebook with 7820HK @ 4.7 ghz, GTX 1070 MXM TDP mod to 230W, 32 GB RAM

Last edited by Falkentyne; 08-06-2019 at 10:41 AM.
Falkentyne is offline  
post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 08:20 AM
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman
 
Intrud3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 435
Rep: 14 (Unique: 5)
Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
The board doesn't always seem to be able to change all the settings at once. Then when you reboot a second time it actually resets everything.

I know for a fact that doing something like going from a fixed vcore at a lower core/cache multiplier (x47/x44, 1.230v) with something like loadline calibration=high already saved and used (assuming AC and DC Loadline is already at 1.6 mOhms or 160), then going into the BIOS and setting something like this:

5 ghz, x50 / x47
Vcore LLC: Standard
CPU Vcore: Auto

Then saving and exiting, is enough to make the board completely fail to POST (total lockup).
Then when you power off the board with the power switch and power it back on, it boots up like nothing even went wrong to begin with.

I actually got bored and tested the OP's settings.
5 ghz/4.7 ghz, Vcore Normal, DVID +0.030, Vcore LLC: Medium.
AC LL: 40, DC LL: 130 (this is the same as Internal Load Line=Power Saving)

Ran prime95 AVX disabled and saw a 1.236v VR VOUT.

I then loaded my saved 4.7 ghz profile (exact settings as above) and saved and rebooted into the BIOS.
Saw my CPU Vcore was being read as 1.332v (?_?) even though the bios setting was 1.230v
I exited and reentered the BIOS again without saving, and then the vcore was being read correctly as 1.236v.

I suspect the Normal DVID setting was somehow still being applied before the second reboot, but even then that doesn't even compute properly. Because 100mv > 30mv

Far more likely was that the manual voltage (1.230v) was not even being applied at all, and it applied 4.7 ghz with +30mv DVID offset from base VID, with AC/DC Loadline actually changed back to 160/160, which caused a voltage rise compared to ACLL=40 (DC Loadline is not important at all). Then when I rebooted a second time, it actually applied the manual voltage.

Suspect that's the case because I already know that 4.7 ghz with AC LL=160 and CPU Vcore=Auto reads 1.296v in BIOS. And what's 1.296v + 0.030v?

This bug doesn't happen when using Auto voltages (and then going to manual voltages) via saved profiles. Only DVID offsets seem to do this.
You are right, from what I can remember when I was switching almost daily to test stuff ... I noticed this behaviour.

Z390 Aorus Ultra F7 | i9 9900K: HT = Off | CPU Clock Ratio = 5.2 | Uncore Ratio = 49 | AVX Offset = 0 | CPU internal AC/DC Loadline = Power Saving | Vcore Loadline Calibration = Low | Vcore = Normal | DVID = +0.120V | VR VOUT = ~1.370V | VCCIO = ~1.221V | VCCSA = ~1.248V | C-States = All Enabled | DDR (Hynix H5AN8G8NAFR-TFC A-die)= [email protected] 40.6ns @ 1.450V | Seasonic Focus Plus Platinum 850W | Acer Predator Z35P | Gigabyte Aorus 2080 Ti 11G 1935/8000 @1.049V
My Precious
(19 items)
CPU
Intel i9 9900K
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
GPU
Gigabyte Aorus 2080ti
RAM
G.Skill TridentZ RGB 3200Mhz CL16
Hard Drive
Samsung 950 Pro
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 EVO
Hard Drive
Samsung 860 EVO
Hard Drive
WD 2 TB HDD
Power Supply
Seasonic 850W Platinum
Cooling
NZXT Kraken X72
Case
Corsair Crystal 570X
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
Samsung UE40D6530 40"
Monitor
Dell 2209WA
Monitor
Acer Predator Z35P
Keyboard
Corsair K70 RGB MK.2 Cherry MX Speed Low Profile
Mouse
Logitech G903
Mousepad
Logitech Powerplay
Audio
Onkyo TX-NR509 (hdmi)
▲ hide details ▲
Intrud3r is offline  
post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 2
Rep: 0
Thanks for the replies.

Falkentyne, I haven't had a lot of time recently to play with the overclock, but I will investigate what you said. I was doing so much testing and tweaking, I don't know if I would have been affected by the BIOS settings behavior you mentioned.

I also did some investigation into your posts on AC/DC Load Line and learned quite a bit, though I'm still just scratching the surface. What was helpful right now was the part about applying Ohm's law to determine if the CPU is running within spec. Every time I looked at HWINFO64 while stress testing it was, so I think this overclock is good, but I need to do some more tests and reading.
caleb_land is offline  
Reply

Tags
9900k , aorus , Gigabyte

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off