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post #51 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
We're testing stability here. To test stability, you take anything that can throw a spanner into the works out of the picture. And in the Gigabyte thread, you've seen enough people having BSOD's at idle to know C-states are not always your friend.

We're trying to determine if your CPU is defective. To do that, it's best to put on a fixed vcore as well as making sure the IO and SA voltages are not too low and your LLC is at a reasonable value.

Makes sense, thanks for the tip!

Unit 02
(12 items)
CPU
Intel Core i7-8700K
Motherboard
ASUS Maximus X Apex
GPU
NVIDIA Titan Xp
RAM
GSkill Trident Z - 16GB
Hard Drive
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PRIME Ultra 1000 Titanium
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EK-CoolStream PE 360
Case
Lian Li PC-O11
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Corsair K70 RGB
Mouse
SteelSeries Rival 300
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AKG K7XX
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post #52 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
Did you upgrade your board from a different processor?
If you did, try clearing CMOS first (Master and Xtreme have CMOS clear buttons); make sure you power off before pressing it.
Then after it does its thing, set the following settings as I say them:

1) Enable XMP. (reboot).
2) Set VCCIO to 1.20v.
3) Set VCCSA to 1.25v.
4) Set CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration to "High"
5) Set CPU Voltage to 1.350v
6) disable c-states (you will need to "enable" c-state control (thanks, gigabyte for making this confusing) then you can disable the c-states.
7) Set ring/cache ratio to x47.

Test this and please report back.

This is a fresh build. You list of recommendations got me thinking about something I did not try, despite trying a hundred other combinations. I never tried XMP off and doing manual settings.
Tried the manual settings and was able to overclock my 16-18-18-38 3600 RAM to 17-19-19-40 4000 @ 1.45v and CPU to 5.0Ghz @ 1.29v. Stable OCCT Large Data set for 30min so far. Now that CPU voltage is not amazing, but it's hell of a lot better than 1.38v.
I'm really thinking something is wrong with the XMP on the F10 BIOS.
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post #53 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 06:56 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PBaF View Post
This is a fresh build. You list of recommendations got me thinking about something I did not try, despite trying a hundred other combinations. I never tried XMP off and doing manual settings.
Tried the manual settings and was able to overclock my 16-18-18-38 3600 RAM to 17-19-19-40 4000 @ 1.45v and CPU to 5.0Ghz @ 1.29v. Stable OCCT Large Data set for 30min so far. Now that CPU voltage is not amazing, but it's hell of a lot better than 1.38v.
I'm really thinking something is wrong with the XMP on the F10 BIOS.
Good work. I didn't consider XMP off
Must be something with the RAM subtimings.
I do already know that the tREFI setting is *HOPELESSLY* broken. Like utterly utterly (try it and see for yourself what happens).

in fact please do me a favor so Gigabyte gets the ball rolling.
Please open a support ticket on Gigabyte's site

https://esupport.gigabyte.com/

you may have to make an account.
File in a bug report saying that your 9900KS crashes at default settings with XMP enabled due to that utterly broken TREFI setting and probably some other messed up RAM sub-timings.

(Try changing tREFI for yourself and watch what happens. Prepare to laugh until tomorrow).

tREFI is broken in ALL of their rework GUI Bioses for the entire Z390 line (I know it's broken on the Pro). Not sure about the Aorus Xtreme (like how many people even own one, unless they bought the binned 9900K @ 5.1 version package deal?)

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Last edited by Falkentyne; 11-04-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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post #54 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 07:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Melodist View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Talon2016 View Post
9900KS at 5.1Ghz all core, 4.7Ghz cache, 1.23v BIOS with 1.172v under load.

Edit: I've tested up to 5.3Ghz in BFV and Cinebench but will do more testing for Realbench and AIDA64 stability. 5.3Ghz with my 280mm AIO will be my limit and I am willing to be the thermals under 100% AVX load are going to skyrocket. That said, these synthetic loads far outstrip my daily usage and gaming needs so 5.3Ghz would be a viable clock for me. I will still likely stick with 5.1Ghz at low voltage as my daily driver.
Please just do FPU only, I'm at 1.27 volts, which is only a 10 mv improvement over my binned 9900k, which ran at 1.28 volts, so my binned
9900k was already as good 😬
1.27v load or BIOS? Big difference. What clockspeed and cache on yours?
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Last edited by Talon2016; 11-04-2019 at 08:51 PM.
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post #55 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 07:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PBaF View Post
Got a 9900KS in a Aorus Master with 3600mhz Micron E die. The processor is complete trash. 1.38v just to be stable at 5.0Ghz. Which is what it does on auto settings as well. I waited years to upgrade from my 4790K and this is what I get. The fact that this processor made KS sku and left the factory speaks volumes of Intel. Thanks for making me wait months to buy something that performs worse than a 9900K I could have gotten off Ebay for $250 less.
I can’t believe this honestly. Something must be off. I mean damn. That would be a pretty trash 9900KS from the chips I’ve seen. What are you using to test this? What are your temps like? Temps have a pretty significant affect on voltages required.
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post #56 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 01:03 AM
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I wonder how these KS will do with adaptive voltage. Anyone try yet? At >50x without AVX offset, the undershoot voltage must be brutal at static voltages with cranked up LLC.
Probably well in excess of 100mV undershoot looking at buildzoid's latest results with a 8700K. I wouldn't be surprised if you can hit 50mV lower loaded VR VOUT using adaptive voltages with weak LLC.

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post #57 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 07:16 AM
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Hi Guys,

I haven't really posted or been active in the OC community in a long while. My last real build was in 2013 with a 5ghz 3770k and I haven't upgraded since then.

I ended up getting the itch and purchased a new motherboard, ram, and cpu. That being the Z390 Aorus Master and 9900KS.

I have two 9900KS in my possession, one which is being returned, but I figured I would share some of my findings here. Both chips require at least 1.33-1.34 volts to be stable in Prime95 with AVX offsets at 5ghz stock.

Your chances of overclocking to 5.1 and 5.2 are severely limited on a KS. Voltages may even be high on stock unless I am doing something completely wrong.

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post #58 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 07:18 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Exilon View Post
I wonder how these KS will do with adaptive voltage. Anyone try yet? At >50x without AVX offset, the undershoot voltage must be brutal at static voltages with cranked up LLC.
Probably well in excess of 100mV undershoot looking at buildzoid's latest results with a 8700K. I wouldn't be surprised if you can hit 50mV lower loaded VR VOUT using adaptive voltages with weak LLC.
Adaptive voltage seems to run better at stock than with static voltage. I may be misinformed since I have been out of the game for some time now, but my findings with the two 9900KS that I have in my possession is that they both require around 1.33 - 1.34v to be stable in Prime95 with AVX on.

This morning I loaded up Optimized Motherboard Defaults and I found that some cores were at a much lower voltage with one needing about 1.33. VR Vout was significantly lower.

https://imgur.com/Vo9IcxG

Feel free to correct me or give me suggestions. Thanks

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post #59 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 07:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by PBaF View Post
Got a 9900KS in a Aorus Master with 3600mhz Micron E die. The processor is complete trash. 1.38v just to be stable at 5.0Ghz. Which is what it does on auto settings as well. I waited years to upgrade from my 4790K and this is what I get. The fact that this processor made KS sku and left the factory speaks volumes of Intel. Thanks for making me wait months to buy something that performs worse than a 9900K I could have gotten off Ebay for $250 less.
I have the same motherboard with 3200mhz ram and I've tested two 9900KS's. The results I have for both is that one requires 1.34v and the other requires 1.33v to stay at stock 5ghz with 0 AVX.

My results seem to be better just leaving the voltages on Auto, but I'm still testing.

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post #60 of 422 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by gl0ry View Post
Adaptive voltage seems to run better at stock than with static voltage. I may be misinformed since I have been out of the game for some time now, but my findings with the two 9900KS that I have in my possession is that they both require around 1.33 - 1.34v to be stable in Prime95 with AVX on.

This morning I loaded up Optimized Motherboard Defaults and I found that some cores were at a much lower voltage with one needing about 1.33. VR Vout was significantly lower.

https://imgur.com/Vo9IcxG

Feel free to correct me or give me suggestions. Thanks
Plugging in the second EPS12v will cause your 12v VRM reading to drop less. Some users noticed an increase in stability from that.

Optimized defaults uses auto vcore, a 1.3 mOhms AC loadline and a 1.6 mOhms VRM loadline (Intel spec Loadline Calibration = Vcore LLC "normal" / "standard"). The intel spec LLC has much better transient response (minimum transient dips drop less with respect to RMS voltage), while more aggressive LLC has larger dips.

This is shown by Elmor here (LLC6= Turbo on GB, LLC8=Ultra Extreme on GB, LLC2=Intel spec (1.6 mOhms). Note that on the buildzoid probinator video, he used an 8700K so "Intel spec" is 2.1 mOhms now, and LLC Turbo is 0.52 mOhms (instead of 0.4 mOhms for 9900k), as LLC Turbo is 75% resistance (2.1 * .75) for 8700k, vs (1.6 * .75) for 9900k. LLC High is 50% reduced resistance.

https://elmorlabs.com/index.php/2019...ne-visualized/

Buildzoid shows measurements with the differences between the probinator "RMS average" and "absolute lows" from transient dips at different loadlines although he didn't measure "Standard". Low= 1.3 mOhms.
(note the difference between VR VOUT and the probinator 'average' reading is because of the power plane). What matters is the drop from average to minimum.
Going from LLC: High to LLC:Turbo has a big penalty on minimum voltage drop below RMS.


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Last edited by Falkentyne; 11-05-2019 at 07:36 AM.
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