8250u cannot sustain base clocks of 1.6ghz, please advise. - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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8250u cannot sustain base clocks of 1.6ghz, please advise.

 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2020, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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8250u cannot sustain base clocks of 1.6ghz, please advise.

Hello, I've run into an issue I cant seem to handle myself.

Father got himself a 14'' used laptop (Lenovo ideapad 330s-14ikb) for browsing, for quite cheap, I decided to check it just in case. Laptop had OS reinstalled before being sold.

Everything is fine except it shows 400-450 cinebench R15 scores (Should be above 500) on a supposedly clean OS install, and it's boost behavior is rather strange. Under CinebenchR15 load, after the initial phase of turbo boost to 25-28w (~3ghz or so all-core), it goes down all the way to 7-8W, sits there for a bit, then attempts a quick jump to another 25-28, then goes back to 7-8W, rinse repeat.

I.e. most of the time, at maximum load, it stays at 1496mhz which is not even within specs as it's base clocks, with quick jumps to ~2.8-3ghz (all core), while from my understanding and previous experiences with laptops, after boosting it should stabilize at it's TDP limit of 15W unless thermally constrained (which it is not).

I've monitored it in HWInfo, XTU and then Throttlestop. Temperatures are only reaching 60's, which is low for a laptop, and only TDP limit exceeding has been reported (I suppose it's during those jumps to 25-28w).
I've tried undervolting by 80-100 in XTU (older version, newer ones dont support 8250u) and Throttlestop, with absolutely no changes to CPU boosting behavior under full load or CB-R15 scores improvement. Not even sure Throttlestop undervolting works on it, as I've seen no changes in reported voltage either, though then again, i didn't check it with XTU. I've played around with Power Plans, including attempts to force iGPU into power-saving mode to free up TDP for CPU, just in case - no changes either.

I've also updated BIOS to the latest available one, no changes.

Anybody has an ideas/experience on what could be going on and what could be done about it? Or is it better to return it?
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Last edited by Knjaz136; 01-18-2020 at 03:06 PM.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2020, 03:11 PM
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TDP limit has been exceeded, so perhaps power throttling is causing the switching between full speed, min speed, and rated spec. Although it should not do that.

If possible you might try increasing the package power limit with Throttlestop (maybe XTU can do this as well), to see if that helps.

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2020, 08:50 PM
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My Lenovo has an 8th Gen U CPU and it runs like a beast. With better cooling it could run well over the 15 Watt TDP limit indefinitely. The only time it starts to throttle is when it overheats. No power limit throttling whatsoever.



When using ThrottleStop, you have to undervolt the CPU Core and CPU Cache equally. If you only undervolt one of these, the undervolt will be ignored. If you are going to undervolt the iGPU, you will need to undervolt the Intel GPU and the iGPU Unslice equally. To confirm that under volting is working, open up the FIVR window and look at the monitoring table in the top right corner. That table is updated every second and shows what offset voltages the CPU is currently using.

Go into the FIVR window and make sure that the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature is checked.



Before you check this box, click on the Install button to the right of this feature and follow the directions. You will need to download the RwDrv.zip file from Mega, unzip, and then copy the RwDrv.sys file into your ThrottleStop folder.

https://mega.nz/#!CNNA0SoC!Z2Xi2icwX...SSPpgiRU7VCG6g

This one feature can make a world of difference and might prevent the yo-yo throttling that you are experiencing.

Now go into the TPL window and increase the long and short turbo power limits. Do some more Cinebench testing. While your CPU is loaded, keep the ThrottleStop Limit Reasons window open so you can watch for any throttling. Post lots of screenshots so I can see how you have ThrottleStop setup and show me what it reports when your CPU is loaded and / or throttling.

When Speed Shift is enabled (SST in green), for maximum performance, edit the Speed Shift EPP variable on the main screen and set this to 0. Use the Windows high performance power profile.

If you can get the power limits straightened out, there should be no need to force the iGPU into power saving mode or any other tricks like that. Performance is on par with a 4th Gen desktop CPU. That is not so bad for a thin and light laptop.



Last edited by unclewebb; 01-18-2020 at 09:00 PM.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-18-2020, 09:16 PM
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Might seem stupid but have you checked the cooler? Intake/exhaust ports not clogged?

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Important stuff I found in the end, moving it up here.

....another one, 14W TDP limit, 128 duration - but it was STILL dropping to 7w constantly, although this time it was sustaining 14w for alot longer. Highest Cinebench score up to date.
https://i.imgur.com/tCSRUGM.jpg

Despite no software reported hitting temperature limits, I decided to use Winter outside and do some testing with ambient temp of 4-6 Celsius (yeah, our winter is quite meh this year). Apparently it's the temps that are making this thing instantly downclock to 7w.

14w TDP, putting laptop to the window.
https://i.imgur.com/F6wURX2.jpg

20w TDP, putting laptop practically out of the window. It didn't downclock to 7w during this run. Did several runs, same results, it can sustain it's turbo speed during whole run as long as I keep temps in 50's or 60-61 or so. PL2 and EDP Other limits being hit all the time, it doesnt care.
https://i.imgur.com/CrPa57u.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7Jdx54o.png
https://i.imgur.com/RzGReAt.jpg


At 28W Turbo limit it starts reaching mid-60's even with outside ambients and thus downclocks to 1496mhz.

So, question still stands - anything I can do about such low temperature limits, except for making things sliiightly better by disassembling and changing thermal paste/cleaning ? I mean, its not normal it thermal throttles to hell at 60's Celsius ?
I've read disabling BDPROCHOT might help with it, but is it really safe thing to do?

==========================================
Original post:

Quote: Originally Posted by unclewebb View Post
Now go into the TPL window and increase the long and short turbo power limits.
By that you meant the duration, not the limits themselves, right?

Anyway, did as you proposed. Practically no changes (10-20 points of CB), but noticed it never hits PL1 limit, goes straight down to 7w after exceeding PL2 and "EDP Other"
https://i.imgur.com/y2a9zYJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MYbz7mo.png
https://i.imgur.com/kUASLZ0.jpg

This is with both power limits to 30W.
https://i.imgur.com/OYFoeAe.png
https://i.imgur.com/0DoHjiU.png


Same stuff, except now it jumps between 7w and 30w, never hitting PL1 limit.

Only if I put Turbo duration to 0 it starts hitting PL1.
ttps://i.imgur.com/tHq0beC.png
https://i.imgur.com/YCDNMBR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jzGm4jE.png



TLDR:
it always hits EDP Other limit, whatever it is.
It constantly jumps between 1496ghz / 7w and whatever maximum there is with some wattage inbetween, never hitting PL1 limit unless I put turbo time limit to practically 0.

For reference, TS settings.
https://i.imgur.com/4TKXNMz.png
https://i.imgur.com/xcYm88o.png
https://i.imgur.com/qsitqos.png
https://i.imgur.com/H265qFm.png
https://i.imgur.com/BtNDMYj.png
https://i.imgur.com/zFQqRTo.png (locked power limits in the end, wanted to see if that setting does anything, now they cant be unlocked eve through .INI file. lol)

UPDATE: NVM, its just ThrottleStop saving settings it wasnt supposed to be saving. Anyway, this is how everything looks with Turbo power limits set to 15w, instead of 18-25W.
https://i.imgur.com/ZNY1hL0.png
https://i.imgur.com/Pd8uNS4.png
https://i.imgur.com/mpW6VCT.png
With CB score of 462. (among highest ive seen so far).... (rest of the post moved into beginning)

Last edited by Knjaz136; 01-19-2020 at 08:54 AM. Reason: links
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 08:32 PM
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PL2 is the short term turbo power limit. When you see that and RING - EDP OTHER light up in ThrottleStop at the exact same time, it is always the PL2 short power turbo limit that is causing the problem.

Here are a few more things you can try. In the TPL window, do not check any of the Clamp options.

This 8th Gen CPU supports Speed Shift. Try enabling Speed Shift in the TPL window. Push OK and you should see SST in green on the main ThrottleStop screen.



After you have done this, check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen and where it shows a number to the right of the EPP box, you can edit that value. For testing purposes, change EPP to 0 for maximum performance. If you want the CPU to clock down when lightly loaded, use an EPP setting of 80.

Intel's low power U CPUs have a configurable TDP mode. This allows the CPU to behave like 3 different CPUs in one package. It can run in TDP-up mode which is usually 25 Watts, it can run at the rated TDP which is 15 Watts or it can go into TDP-down mode where it drops down to a max of 10 Watts. Have a look in HWiNFO. It should show you what TDP Level your CPU is operating in. Level 0 is the default level. See if this value changes in HWiNFO when your CPU starts heavily throttling. I am not sure if Lenovo is using this capability or not.

The PP0 Current Limit in ThrottleStop is set to 0. This usually means that this setting is not being used but I would try setting that to 80. Your CPU will only use as much current as it needs to use so setting this high is not going to hurt anything.

Set the Long and Short turbo power limits both to 25 Watts and set the turbo time limit to the default 28 seconds. I am just curious to see if it still drops down to 7 Watts when setup like this.

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by unclewebb View Post
PL2 is the short term turbo power limit. When you see that and RING - EDP OTHER light up in ThrottleStop at the exact same time, it is always the PL2 short power turbo limit that is causing the problem.

Here are a few more things you can try. In the TPL window, do not check any of the Clamp options.

This 8th Gen CPU supports Speed Shift. Try enabling Speed Shift in the TPL window. Push OK and you should see SST in green on the main ThrottleStop screen.



After you have done this, check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen and where it shows a number to the right of the EPP box, you can edit that value. For testing purposes, change EPP to 0 for maximum performance. If you want the CPU to clock down when lightly loaded, use an EPP setting of 80.

Intel's low power U CPUs have a configurable TDP mode. This allows the CPU to behave like 3 different CPUs in one package. It can run in TDP-up mode which is usually 25 Watts, it can run at the rated TDP which is 15 Watts or it can go into TDP-down mode where it drops down to a max of 10 Watts. Have a look in HWiNFO. It should show you what TDP Level your CPU is operating in. Level 0 is the default level. See if this value changes in HWiNFO when your CPU starts heavily throttling. I am not sure if Lenovo is using this capability or not.

The PP0 Current Limit in ThrottleStop is set to 0. This usually means that this setting is not being used but I would try setting that to 80. Your CPU will only use as much current as it needs to use so setting this high is not going to hurt anything.

Set the Long and Short turbo power limits both to 25 Watts and set the turbo time limit to the default 28 seconds. I am just curious to see if it still drops down to 7 Watts when setup like this.
Thank you, I will try that, but if it's all about TDP limit, how come I've increased my Cinebench scores by 28% just by putting laptop outside into winter? And how come it didn't downclock even once during whole runs unless CPU temps reached mid-60's ?
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