Why doesn't Intel make an updated Broadwell 5775c? - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
Forum Jump: 

Why doesn't Intel make an updated Broadwell 5775c?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-07-2020, 02:45 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,174
Rep: 27 (Unique: 21)
Why doesn't Intel make an updated Broadwell 5775c?

That eDRAM on the Broadwell C seemed to make a big difference in benchmarks -- it could beat contemporary CPU's that had faster frequencies. Why not an eDRAM instead of an iGPU?
8051 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 04:11 PM
9 Cans of Ravioli
 
The Pook's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,726
Rep: 1265 (Unique: 689)
the biggest benefit for the 5675C and 5775C was the IGP performance, why would they ditch it?













a Coffee Lake 5775C without an IGP wouldn't make much sense, you'd be keeping an entirely different manufacturing line open with separate tooling ($$$$$) for a CPU that more or less sold nothing compared to the 4690/4790K and that was when Intel had no competition.




Intel i9 9900K Coffee Lake @ X8 5309mhz (+47.5%)
AMD FX-8320 Vishera @ X4 5022mhz (+43.5%)
Intel i5 4690K Haswell @ X4 5013mhz (+43.2%)
AMD X4 960T Zosma @ X6 4870mhz (+62.3%)
Intel i7 6700 Skylake @ X4 4709mhz (+38.5%)
Intel i5 6400 Skylake @ X4 4588mhz (+69.9%)
2 OP pls nerf
(24 items)
NUC U
(10 items)
CPU
i9 9900K
Motherboard
AsRock Z390 Taichi
GPU
MSI GTX 1080 Ti
RAM
G.Skill DDR4 4133 32GB
Hard Drive
Mushkin Pilot NVMe 1TB
Hard Drive
HP EX950 NVMe 2TB
Hard Drive
Samsung 860 Evo 1TB
Hard Drive
Toshiba X300 5TB
Hard Drive
Western Digital EZRZ 3TB
Power Supply
Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750w
Cooling
Corsair H115i Pro
Cooling
Raijintek Morpheus II
Case
Fractal Design Meshify S2
Operating System
Windows 10 Education x64
Monitor
Acer XF270HU 27" 1440p
Monitor
LG 24UD58 24" 4K
Keyboard
CoolerMaster MasterKeys Pro S
Mouse
Logitech G502
Mouse
Glorious Model D
Audio
Klipsch PowerGate + FiiO E10K
Audio
Micca RB42
Audio
Philips Fidelio X2
Audio
Philips SHP9500S
Audio
Audio Technica ATH-M50X
CPU
i3 8109U
Motherboard
Intel NUC8i3BEH
GPU
Iris Plus 655
RAM
Kingston 8GB DDR4 2400
Hard Drive
Dierka K1 120GB
Hard Drive
ADATA SU800 128GB M.2
Operating System
Windows 10 Professional
Operating System
MX Linux
Keyboard
Dierya DK63-BT 60% (Outemu Blue)
Mouse
Logitech G603 Wireless
CPU
i7 860
Motherboard
Advantech AIMB 280 ITX
GPU
EVGA GTX 950 2GB
RAM
Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333
Hard Drive
Seagate Momentus 2.5" 500GB
Hard Drive
Western Digital Blue 2.5" 320GB
Power Supply
Silverstone SFX-L Gold 500w
Cooling
Arctic Alpine 11 GT 2
Case
Silverstone Milo Z ML07B
Operating System
Windows XP x86 SP3
Keyboard
Velocifire TKL01 Outemu Browns
Mouse
Logitech M512
▲ hide details ▲


The Pook is offline  
post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 04:14 PM
The last VRM burner
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,167
Rep: 42 (Unique: 25)
https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test...600k?page=0,30


Anandtechs Broadwell tests are autistic.

PC for all
(21 items)
CPU
i7 5775c @4.2GHz/3.8GHz
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5
GPU
Iris Pro 6200
RAM
F3-2400C11D-16GAB Samsung Rev. Q
Hard Drive
Corsair MP510
Hard Drive
Samsung Evo 860
Power Supply
Seasonic Focus Plus 750W
Cooling
Artcic Liquid Freezer II 360mm
Cooling
Arctic P12 PWM x2
Cooling
Arctic P14 x4
Case
LianLi 330X
Operating System
Windows 10 64-bit Pro
Monitor
Samsung C24FG73FQUX
Monitor
Benq GL2250 80Hz
Keyboard
Corsair Strafe Red Silent + 1.6x6mm o-rings
Mouse
SteelSeries Rival 600
Mousepad
Artisan FX Raiden
Audio
Audio in Motion SC808 + MUSES8820 + 2x 2xLME49990
Audio
AKG M220
Other
NZXT Hue+
Other
Mayflash F300 Arcade Stick
▲ hide details ▲
BroadPwns is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,174
Rep: 27 (Unique: 21)
Quote: Originally Posted by BroadPwns View Post
https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test...600k?page=0,30

Anandtechs Broadwell tests are autistic.
The Broadwell-C compares really well in that review. It came out on top in the Deus Ex: Mankind Divided benches -- even over an 8700k!

I guess overclocking is where the Broadwells don't do so good. Does custom liquid cooling a Broadwell-C get you more overhead for overclocking?
8051 is online now  
post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 05:10 AM
The last VRM burner
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,167
Rep: 42 (Unique: 25)
I don't know.

PC for all
(21 items)
CPU
i7 5775c @4.2GHz/3.8GHz
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5
GPU
Iris Pro 6200
RAM
F3-2400C11D-16GAB Samsung Rev. Q
Hard Drive
Corsair MP510
Hard Drive
Samsung Evo 860
Power Supply
Seasonic Focus Plus 750W
Cooling
Artcic Liquid Freezer II 360mm
Cooling
Arctic P12 PWM x2
Cooling
Arctic P14 x4
Case
LianLi 330X
Operating System
Windows 10 64-bit Pro
Monitor
Samsung C24FG73FQUX
Monitor
Benq GL2250 80Hz
Keyboard
Corsair Strafe Red Silent + 1.6x6mm o-rings
Mouse
SteelSeries Rival 600
Mousepad
Artisan FX Raiden
Audio
Audio in Motion SC808 + MUSES8820 + 2x 2xLME49990
Audio
AKG M220
Other
NZXT Hue+
Other
Mayflash F300 Arcade Stick
▲ hide details ▲
BroadPwns is online now  
post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 07:32 AM
Not a linux lobbyist
 
rluker5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,968
Rep: 51 (Unique: 38)
Intel wouldn't use edram instead of an igpu because of sales. Most people like using their igpus and most who buy cpus without igpus for gaming sadly don't look at gaming benchmarks as their primary criteria for purchase. Evidence of this is the popularity of Ryzen. A few of those people are buying those chips for workstations, but most for gaming or epeen or something.
They wouldn't care if 3/4ths of the cpu bottlenecked game benchmarks showed the 6c12t edram chip beating everything AMD by 75% and the rest were even, they would still buy ryzen 12c24t for cinebench, handbrake and non nvidia streaming.

Intel would just lose the sales of those who wanted lower power use or igpus.

Intel is making latency progress though and Tiger Lake may be passing Broadwell on cumulative latency under 128MB with a greater emphasis on lower data size speeds: https://www.techpowerup.com/261360/i...he-rebalancing
If not Tiger Lake, then certainly with the upcoming DDR5.
You can really see the difference that edram makes in the memory latency ladder of 2 of my pcs, one with edram and one without. Imagine what 5MB L2 and 12 MB L3 for a quad core or double that for an 8 core would look like on those latency ladders. Then factor in DDR5 latency at the end of that. https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/24496159 https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/15928618
That's my next planned upgrade. 8c16t DDR5 Intel.

Most of what the edram gave was lower latency. The extra bandwidth was more of a help for the igpu as evidenced with quad channel ram dgpu gaming benchmark comparisons.
Lower latency is coming. You will be able to have your cake and eat it too.

L5
(17 items)
Lea2
(11 items)
L7
(11 items)
CPU
5775c
Motherboard
Maximus VII Hero
GPU
Aorus 1080ti Waterforce
RAM
16 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
RAM
8 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
Hard Drive
1Tb Team ssd
Hard Drive
seagate barracuda 3T
Hard Drive
Optane 900p 480G OS
Optical Drive
Asus BW-16D1HT
Power Supply
EVGA Supernova 1300 G2
Cooling
Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 120 (cpu)
Cooling
2 140mm case fans, 2 120mm
Case
Fractal Design R4 (no window)
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
panasonic TC-58AX800U
Audio
Focal Elear, Nova 40, 598se, HE4xx, DT990pro w b.boost earpads
Audio
SoundbasterX AE-5, onboard
CPU
4770k
Motherboard
Asus Z87 Deluxe
GPU
Fury Nitro
RAM
8Gb klevv urbane 2133
Hard Drive
ROG Raidr 240Gb pcie
Hard Drive
1Tb WD blue
Power Supply
Pc Power&Cooling silencer Mk2 950w
Cooling
Deepcool Lucifer V2
Case
DIYPC P48-W
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
40"tv
CPU
4980hq
Motherboard
Asus H81T/CSM
RAM
8Gb 1600 samsung
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 evo 120gb
Power Supply
Skyvast 90w brick for hp pavilion something
Cooling
SilverStone Tek Super Slim
Case
SilverStone Tek PT13B
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
24" samsung 1080p
Keyboard
Logitech K400+
Other
Intel wifi ac card and noname antennas
▲ hide details ▲
rluker5 is offline  
post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 07:33 AM
LTSC Consiglieri
 
skupples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 22,286
Rep: 648 (Unique: 349)
Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
The Broadwell-C compares really well in that review. It came out on top in the Deus Ex: Mankind Divided benches -- even over an 8700k!

I guess overclocking is where the Broadwells don't do so good. Does custom liquid cooling a Broadwell-C get you more overhead for overclocking?
that's the main purpose of liquid cooling. more OC room, and less noise. or, same noise, n more perf. your choice, really.

R.I.P. Zawarudo, may you OC angels' wings in heaven.
If something appears too good to be true, it probably is.
Best R0ach Quote of all time : TLDR: Haswell might be the last legit gaming platform unless mice get their own non-USB interface on some newer architecture.
skupples is offline  
post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,174
Rep: 27 (Unique: 21)
rluker5,

Is the eDRAM just a faster version of whatever DDR memory is available at the time? So on the 5775c the eDRAM was just super fast DDR3?

If the above is the case what does the eDRAM consist of in the Crystalwell CPU's? DDR4?
8051 is online now  
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 07:58 PM
Not a linux lobbyist
 
rluker5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,968
Rep: 51 (Unique: 38)
Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
rluker5,

Is the eDRAM just a faster version of whatever DDR memory is available at the time? So on the 5775c the eDRAM was just super fast DDR3?

If the above is the case what does the eDRAM consist of in the Crystalwell CPU's? DDR4?
Yes, the eDRAM is just fast DRAM just like double data rate DRAM (ddr), and the Crystalwell had 1600mhz native DRAM while Broadwell had 1800mhz native DRAM. The edram controller and how they wired it in must have made it faster.

Crystalwell came before Broadwell and is just like it, except it is 22nm and has Haswell cores. Architectural changes were made with Broadwell and it is faster in every way except clockspeed. Even with the clockspeed deficiency it is faster.

Last month I did a comparison between my two adaptations: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/21421184/fs/21419094#
The Broadwell result registered the unused Fury for some reason, but the iris 6200 was used at 1250mhz. The Crystalwell had a gpu clockspeed of 1500mhz so the two igpus were matched for tflops.

The Crystalwell works in the two h81 boards and two EVGA Z97 boards I've tried, but no bga 1364 to lga 1150 adaptation I have worked in either my Asus Z97 Hero or daughter's Z87 Deluxe.

The 4980hq does make for a ringer of a 1.4 liter thin itx cpu
But for an old board like that a $50 used 4670k would be a better buy if you didn't have an impulse purchased 4980hq to put in.

I dug up a couple of pictures: First is Haswell, Crystalwell, Broadwell and the second is thin itx(L7 in sig), my living room consoly/vr itx with the fury and 5950hq, and atx (L5 from my sig). If you want a desktop that doesn't need a dgpu, thin itx is in a different league than itx.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20190222_10_46_35_Pro.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	4.79 MB
ID:	325754  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20200103_221732.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	3.42 MB
ID:	325756  


L5
(17 items)
Lea2
(11 items)
L7
(11 items)
CPU
5775c
Motherboard
Maximus VII Hero
GPU
Aorus 1080ti Waterforce
RAM
16 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
RAM
8 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
Hard Drive
1Tb Team ssd
Hard Drive
seagate barracuda 3T
Hard Drive
Optane 900p 480G OS
Optical Drive
Asus BW-16D1HT
Power Supply
EVGA Supernova 1300 G2
Cooling
Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 120 (cpu)
Cooling
2 140mm case fans, 2 120mm
Case
Fractal Design R4 (no window)
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
panasonic TC-58AX800U
Audio
Focal Elear, Nova 40, 598se, HE4xx, DT990pro w b.boost earpads
Audio
SoundbasterX AE-5, onboard
CPU
4770k
Motherboard
Asus Z87 Deluxe
GPU
Fury Nitro
RAM
8Gb klevv urbane 2133
Hard Drive
ROG Raidr 240Gb pcie
Hard Drive
1Tb WD blue
Power Supply
Pc Power&Cooling silencer Mk2 950w
Cooling
Deepcool Lucifer V2
Case
DIYPC P48-W
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
40"tv
CPU
4980hq
Motherboard
Asus H81T/CSM
RAM
8Gb 1600 samsung
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 evo 120gb
Power Supply
Skyvast 90w brick for hp pavilion something
Cooling
SilverStone Tek Super Slim
Case
SilverStone Tek PT13B
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
24" samsung 1080p
Keyboard
Logitech K400+
Other
Intel wifi ac card and noname antennas
▲ hide details ▲

Last edited by rluker5; 02-09-2020 at 08:22 PM.
rluker5 is offline  
post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 01:47 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: µcode
Posts: 724
Rep: 57 (Unique: 47)
Are the eDRAM for Crystalwell and Broadwell not the same? While the Haswell config is 1600MHz and actually runs at that clock, not at double data rate but with four transmitters and four receivers to presumably give 4x 1.6GHz x 8 read and write speeds of 51.2 GB/s and full duplex speeds of 102.4GB/s, it can be overclocked to around 2200MHz which I believe is the same for Broadwell.


Last edited by ucode; 02-10-2020 at 02:04 AM.
ucode is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off