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Mini-DTX Hype Thread (ITX with two PCIe slots!)

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post #21 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

Good points so far everyone!

As far as X99 on mITX/mDTX, I would love that, but I fear it's just not feasable. Shuttle did it with X79 on one of their form factor boards (which are very similar to full DTX):



A Mini-DTX X99 would be epic though, even if it was only dual channel SODIMMs. I hope one day we can look at full DTX LGA2011-3 boards, but they will break compatibility with some cases.

And again, for those who favor a dual slot/air cooled card, you don't have to use the extra slot. thumb.gif
My example picture showed a board with an x16 and an x1 slot, but that doesn't have to be the case (and indeed, if I could find a picture of a Mini-DTX board with two x16 slots I wouldn't have made this thread.)

For sure point taken thumb.gif. I'm with you if we can get an X99 mDTX with two separate 16x PCIe then that would be awesome! Until manufacturers jump i'll be following this with great interest biggrin.gif

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post #22 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 01:56 PM
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Put me on the list! If all itx boards moved to DTX, there would be no loss for ITX users (extra slot doesnt need to be used/fits in all existing itx cases with dual slots), but a gain for those who want pcie audio or SSDs along with a graphics card, or dual watercooled gpus.

I dont know jack about mobo design, but it seems like adding another slot shouldnt be that excessive? I could be totally wrong.
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post #23 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 02:10 PM
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I was thinking of that Shuttle board when I read the OP, even if it isn't officially mDTX it's pretty much what I have been wanting to get. I'm mostly in it for LGA 2011 and the 4 DIMM support. But I very much like that form factor of the Shuttle board, where it is longer horizontally, about as long as a standard ATX/mATX board.

Something like this X99 mATX board, but only 2 PCIe slots shorter.



One other thing to consider with a DTX-sized board is that it's rectangular unlike mATX which is square. So it can be oriented vertically or horizontally for more potential in case sizes and modding.
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post #24 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccRicers View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I was thinking of that Shuttle board when I read the OP, even if it isn't officially mDTX it's pretty much what I have been wanting to get. I'm mostly in it for LGA 2011 and the 4 DIMM support. But I very much like that form factor of the Shuttle board, where it is longer horizontally, about as long as a standard ATX/mATX board.

Something like this X99 mATX board, but only 2 PCIe slots shorter.



One other thing to consider with a DTX-sized board is that it's rectangular unlike mATX which is square. So it can be oriented vertically or horizontally for more potential in case sizes and modding.

Yep, move the m.2 slot to a riser or around back, then have a PCIe x16 in both slots! Should be doable. I'm sure LGA2011-3 has a lot more requirements as far as routing and board layers, but Shuttle was able to do it, and they're not even a huge OEM.

I'm a big fan of "shoebox" cases, most of which would handle a full DTX board with no issues.

Why do we mount round fans on square radiators?


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post #25 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccRicers View Post

I was thinking of that Shuttle board when I read the OP, even if it isn't officially mDTX it's pretty much what I have been wanting to get. I'm mostly in it for LGA 2011 and the 4 DIMM support. But I very much like that form factor of the Shuttle board, where it is longer horizontally, about as long as a standard ATX/mATX board.
Shuttle's motherboards are actually deeper than mATX/ATX, by about an inch. A comparison of the two form factors, scaled to match:



DTX is really what you're asking for - essentially mATX minus two slots:



And Mini-DTX is DTX with the depth cut down to mini-ITX size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

I'm a big fan of "shoebox" cases, most of which would handle a full DTX board with no issues.
I don't know about that. DTX is 74mm deeper than mini-ITX, which is a problem for a number of shoebox mini-ITX cases. The SG07/08 and Node 304, for example, wouldn't have the room due to the PSU being in front of the motherboard. It might work in the SG05/06, but the depth of the case (276mm), minus the bezel thickness (10mm?) wouldn't leave quite enough room for a standard 25mm thick front fan with a DTX motherboard (244mm).

The cases I could see DTX working in are the the Coolermaster Elite 120/130 with the drive cage removed, and maybe Silverstone's upcoming SG05 update, the SG13.
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post #26 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 03:41 PM
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Hey, look! A link!

http://www.nmediapc.com/ATX.htm

So basically, mDTX is just mATX with some specific dimensions, as is mITX (technically).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insan1tyOne View Post

The point is, is that you could have a pretty small case (lets say the new Phanteks Enthoo Evolv) that supports a TON of watercooling and other options but only supports m-ITX boards. That is why m-DTX would be great.

You called the EVOLV small, your argument is invalid. tongue.gif No, really - the thing is the size of some of the smaller ATX mid-towers.

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Originally Posted by fleetfeather View Post

Dual channel DDR4 (if you want quad channel, go mATX, seriously)

Excuse me?! SODIMMs, sir! Look at your laptop. Two SODIMMs in a line would be maybe 10% longer than a single DIMM. The only "issue" is that the frequency is much lower than desktop RAM.

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Originally Posted by fleetfeather View Post

Heh,

The biggest concern for me regarding mATX is the extra length of the board, rather than the width. After all, your GPU tends to hang past the side of mITX boards atm anyway. The obvious exception is cards with 170mm PCB's, but alas most mITX cases don't make great use of that width dimension anyways

I suppose I could be happy with DTX z97 too, but I'd rather see mobo manufacturers aim for the stars, rather than aim for the moon tongue.gif

You do realize that mATX is a very broad standard, right? It's simply using a certain placement of standoffs and must be between 171mm and 244mm in both dimensions. That means up to the four-slot, four-DIMM square we all know and love all the way down to something negligibly larger than mITX.

There are mATX boards that fit the mDTX standard (almost) exactly, but are labeled mATX. ECS has some, H61 and H81 I believe.

mDTX itself is just mITX plus an extra 33mm of height. Widen it to a 203mm square, and it ought to fit in most mITX cases while maintaining quad-channel and dual x16 slots.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheBadBull View Post
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post #27 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Shadow_Foxx View Post

Put me on the list! If all itx boards moved to DTX, there would be no loss for ITX users (extra slot doesnt need to be used/fits in all existing itx cases with dual slots), but a gain for those who want pcie audio or SSDs along with a graphics card, or dual watercooled gpus.

I dont know jack about mobo design, but it seems like adding another slot shouldnt be that excessive? I could be totally wrong.

Some mITX builds use square cases that couldn't fit the additional slot, but those don't even need the first extension slot and can get along with Thin-mITX in most cases. But I would certainly say that mDTX has a market, the question is just how large it is.
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post #28 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 04:35 PM
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Wait, I just remembered. Some smaller mITX boards do use SODIMMs, but they don't fit in vertical slots. Rather, they sit parallel to the board in a laptop-esque housing. You could have a stack of four instead of just two of those. That shouldn't take much additional surface area.

Alternatively, what about a mini PCIe adapter to use the second slot? There are adapters that use USB 3.0 cables for x1 to x16 risers, and I'm sure the same could be done here using pure mITX.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheBadBull View Post
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post #29 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Wait, I just remembered. Some smaller mITX boards do use SODIMMs, but they don't fit in vertical slots. Rather, they sit parallel to the board in a laptop-esque housing. You could have a stack of four instead of just two of those. That shouldn't take much additional surface area.

Alternatively, what about a mini PCIe adapter to use the second slot? There are adapters that use USB 3.0 cables for x1 to x16 risers, and I'm sure the same could be done here using pure mITX.

Quad-stack SODIMMs aren't a terrible idea, There's plenty of gaming laptops that use 4 sticks.

They make the mPCIe adapter you mention, but of course it's only 1x.


Why do we mount round fans on square radiators?


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post #30 of 982 (permalink) Old 09-28-2014, 04:52 PM
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I have one of those mPCIe to x1 converters. It works ok with a sound card but the cabling and the placement of most mPCIe slots makes it awkward to use.

Also not all SODIMMS are horizontal (that would take up more board space) They make them vertical too.



I suppose flat ones could be placed on the bottom of the board. I'd need to check the ATX spec on that though.

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