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[Build log] Thermaltake Core V1 remake and full custom watercooling.

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post #21 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Bought an Anti-static service kit.
Lindy 43080 Anti-Static Service Kit - Mat and Strap
I just bought mine from ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310332571718
I really should have bought something like this many years ago, but they easily cost like €100 for a proper mat!! Quick kits and travel-kits has started to emerge though, so now was the time thumb.gif
Prizes are just so low now, that everyone should get into the habit of tugging one of these along smile.gif

It consists of:
  • Anti-static mat
  • Arm strap (1,5m)
  • Grounding cord with crocodile clip (2,5m)

How it Works:
  • You place the mat where you plan to Work.
  • Find a point to attached the grounding crocodile clip. If you live in a house with grounding in your electrical installations, you might use one of those (care must be taken).
    If you do not, or just don't want to or know how to do it safely you can attach the crocodile clip to a radiator part. Just make sure there isn't painting on the part you clip onto - maybe even scrape the paint off of a small area you won't notice.
  • Put the wrist strap on your arm.
  • The strap and grounding cords are both attached using a clip-on bottom design. You can extend or change how these things connects.

Why use one of these? Nothing bad ever happened, and I have handled electronics for years and years!
So, you are a sceptical? I was too untill I did a course on handling Electronics and doing solder Work some years ago.

The thing is that you are propably not going to kill your hardware by handling it. No matter how much you finger your motherboard, ram or Graphics Card.

What might happen instead, is inner degradation of the circuits. It might be get 5% or maybe 10% weaker. It means it will stop working a literally years before its time.

You might not ever use your hardware for so long, but it's not only the longlevity, it is also comes Down to stability when doing things like Overclockcing!

So, to recap my initial point: Prizes are just so low now, that everyone should get into the habit of tugging one of these along smile.gif

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post #22 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 10:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Mounting waterblock on Graphics Card

Mounting GPU-waterblock EK-FC750 GTX and EVGA backplate onto my EVGA Ti 750 SC.

You might have noticed my tingy EVGA 750 Ti SC placed on the anti-static mat in one of the images of the previous post. I had it there, as I intended to Mount my waterblock when I got my anti-static mat.

Preparing the Graphics Card
First I dismount the backplate I had screwn on previously. Only 5 screws here to deal with.
Cleaning away Thermal Grease
  1. I use a paper-towel to remove the worst of the thermal crease from the GPU and fan-assembly. Afterwards I use Isopropyl alcohol to clean off the thermal crease. I initially put it on paper-towel, but you can use a filt-pen or similar as well.
  2. Ónce the thermal grease is cleaned away I use some soft cloth to polish it a bit.

Adding thermal grease and thermal pads
  1. 1 long piece of thermal pad was included. About twice the amount of what I needed. I cut it up to 4 fitting pieces and keep the rest in a safe place - you always want to keep stuff like this somewhere for future uses.
  2. I add a small drop of Thermal Grease. I always use my own Arctic Silver since I bought a 12,5g tube several years ago. The amount I add here is actual too much. Nothing bad will come from it, except added cleaning needed when/if I remove the waterblock.
  3. The backplate it not standard equipemt, and the screws included with the waterblock just barely latched onto the waterblock through the backplate and the PCB of the Card. I couldn't even use the included plastic washers due to the short lengths of the screws!


Some images to showcase my small Graphics card
Here you can see how I have blanketed two of the inlet/outlet holes with the included plugs and mounted 2 of my Monsoon fittings in the two other holes.
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post #23 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Had some time to spare, so gave my Apogee II a workover. In a previous post I took out the Swiftech MCP35x pump from the assembly and attached an EK housing to it. Seems I can't remove that housing once its on, but it turned out ok anyway.

Notice the O-ring that has been used compared to a new one. It's all squeezed flat and full of marks after the pins. Also notice the "gnat" I removed from the pins.
You notice near the lower-middle screw that I had to remove some of the coppery material, as it didn't like my old motherboard!


I also had some time testing wheter the fittings from Monsoon could make a watertight seal with the tubing I had. Was a bit worried as I felt they didn't really go that tight against the tubing, but the test went just fine. I also wanted to see how the White tubing looked against the Black fittings.


I also wanted to try making some anti-bubble stuff. It worked as far as catching bubbles, but it was too soft for my comfort, as it seemed like it wanted to be sucked Down into the pump:
When your reservoir looks misty like mine here it is caused by bubbles being hammered into very small pieces. The only real solution is to turn off the system and let the air form into proper bubbles once more and try to catch them in a reservoir or similar.


Learned that my radiator, Graphics Card, pump+reservoir and a Little tubing was 600ml! Ohh, and the choices:
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post #24 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-17-2015, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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As it is going to be a couple of weeks untill I recieve my motherboard waterblock, I decided to test out the system as is, and get some temperature readings to go from.

I forgot to install my temp sensors in the waterloop (doh), but managed to plug them into the holes in in the Cold and warm Water chambers of the radiator, so worked out ok.

Aside from the Water I also put sensors on the pump-heatsink, the motherboard, ram and VRMs.




After mouting everything it became obvious to me, that making a Black acrylic plate to hide the rear IOs is a good idea.
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post #25 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-17-2015, 11:56 AM
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Great mounting tests Darron.
You're very professional with custom water loops. While reading your posts i was thinking if in the future i want to use a water block for my gtx 970 with this hybrid aio swiftech h140-x it would be enought to cool the cpu and the gfx?
Do you think it would be undersized? This h140-x performs just like a corsair h110i for the cpu.
Thanks in advance!
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post #26 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 02:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svictorcc View Post

Great mounting tests Darron.
You're very professional with custom water loops. While reading your posts i was thinking if in the future i want to use a water block for my gtx 970 with this hybrid aio swiftech h140-x it would be enought to cool the cpu and the gfx?
Do you think it would be undersized? This h140-x performs just like a corsair h110i for the cpu.
Thanks in advance!
The short answer is: yes, it should be enough.

The GTX 970 has a TDP of 145w which isn't that much when it comes to Graphics Cards.
Intel® Core™ i7-4790K Processor has a TDP of 88w which is pretty low actually. Higher than smaller models, but low when looking a CPU heat over 5 years.

If you combine those two heat specifications you end up at having to deal with 233watt.

For some reason Swiftech hasn't made data available for the H140-X that I could find, but any 140mm should be able to dissipate that amount of heat.

It all comes down to how much money you want to spend. These AIO watercoolers, which can be turned into custom loops are great value. Just remember to add the adapter needed for the pump into the cost.

Try see if you can find some details on heat dissipation of the H140-X radiator.

Limitations of these sets are, as far as I can see, that you have to have the pump mounted onto the reservoir and radiator. Is that correct? Meaning that you can't use a different radiator or get rid of the reservoir? Is this observation true? I havn't spend that much time trying to find disassembly reviews.

You will find people WHO claim that you have to have 2x120mm radiator pr hardware you want to cool. That just isn't true. Yes, you have larger headroom and you might be able to run a more quiet setup, but it doesn't mean you HAVE to have that much radiator real estate. I've used an Corsair H60 to cool both my i7-3770k and an AMD HD5770. I later upgraded to a bigger radiator from EK and last of all I bought the Swiftech Apogee II drive.

I can't recommend trying to bleed out a system using id/od 6/8 cables with a weak pump (the H60) and not having a reservoir!

What I'm trying to say is that the system you have in mind seems like a very good option, but you have to make up your mind on future requirments.
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post #27 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svictorcc View Post

Great mounting tests Darron.
You're very professional with custom water loops. While reading your posts i was thinking if in the future i want to use a water block for my gtx 970 with this hybrid aio swiftech h140-x it would be enought to cool the cpu and the gfx?
Do you think it would be undersized? This h140-x performs just like a corsair h110i for the cpu.
Thanks in advance!
Just forgot to mention some important things:

Fans: best upgrade for money is getting some new fans. Now, I don't know the specific fans that comes with the h140-x but I guess they aren't better than any of the other AIO watercooling sets I've tried.
This Means they are unncessarily loud and underperforms compared to some good aftermarket fans: The best 120mm fan I have ever used for watercooling is Noctua NF-F12 PWN. The keyword for a good fan for radiators is static pressure. Anyone who embarge on the watercooling hobby must learn this term.
One of these fans worked better in push than the fans that came with the Corsair H80i in push/pull! No kidding. And way more quiet at the same time. I have a single of these fans running just pull, so I seriously can't hear it at all (and I'm notoriously noise sensitive), unless I have gamed for a while and the system gets very hot.

Pump flowrate:
This is also a term any new wannabe watercooler needs to know. At least if they plan on overclocking. When overclocking the CPU gets really hot really fast. The key to keeping it cool is to rapidly change the water in the CPU-block. If you have a high flow rate, the water gets rapidly changed from warm to cold.

Of course with a high flowrate the water stays in the radiator for less time, and thus have less of a chance to get cooled down. This Means the radiator must be effective. The easy way to make a radiator effectie is to add fans, or upgrade fans (see my note on Noctua above).
Another option is to get an upgraded radiator. Normally this is with higher fincount pr inch (fpi - new term). This in turn require a fan with high static pressure, or the air will get deflected to the sides (remember the Noctua).

Another way to optimize a radiator for heat-exchangeing is to add more pipes to the radiator. You can call it single, double or some other term, but it boils (pun intended) down to the water staying in the radiator for a longer time.
This last thing really tends to kill the flowrate though!!

Pump head
This leads to yet another very important term in watercooling terminology (sp?). In short it defines the pump's abiliy to keep up the flowrate when various flow-restricting items are introduced to the loop. These items might be an extra waterblock. Flow-Measurement equipment. Bends and kinks in the tubing (very minor obstacle). Long route through the radiator.

Paradoxes and Compromises
A very restrictive waterblock tends to be the most effective one as well. Same goes for Radiators. If you REALLY want to get cooling from your fans, you set them in Push, not Pull, but then they also make more noise. So it boils down to a lot of compromises or you might say paradoxes.

The Heart of the Pump
Or rather, the Pump IS the Heart of the system. If your pump has the ability to generate a high flow, and delivers high head, you can introduce a lot of items to your loop, and use a restrictive radiator without killing the flowrate. In the last some years a lot of very powerfull pumps came into the scene with PWM ability which opened the best of all Worlds: silent running when possible but all the muscles when you needed it the most.

My favorite both because of the sizefactor, performance and the loads of 3rd party accessories like new tops, new cabinets to cool better, reservoirs and so on is clearly the Laing DDC in one of its flavors.
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post #28 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually logged on today to write about my RAM, but the short (cough cough) post above took some time rolleyes.gif

Anyways.
I've been thinking about watercooling my RAM using the ramplex full copper edition RAM-cooler. Its purely for the looks only. Nothing else.
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So I started looking for any pitfalls when it comes to removing the heatspreader from my Corsair Vengeance.


Note: I might have issues installing any watercooled ram thing due to the proximity of the vertical VRM setup on my motherboard!
At least I have to cut some out of the Delrim.


I read about people claiming the temperature went lower when they took off the heatspreader and so I became curious really.

I decided to have a look, so I just turned off my PC and took out 1 blok of RAM and gently pulled on the heatspreader. It was pretty easy. Had to use no tools at all.
Wow, lots of gooey stuff redface.gif It seems like they have glued the thermal pad onto the dimms and onto the heatspreader as well. The heatspreaders seems very thin and flimsy when not glued to the ram-stick. It didn't bend or anything, but it just disappointed somehow. Think it is all aluminum.


I taped on a temp sensor and my Measurements begin.


I will update this post later tonight with my findings, but for now it seems the temperature was getting lower when I removed the heatspreader!
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post #29 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 05:21 PM
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Man, for now on, you are my water cooling Master! teaching.gif
A real high level class you give me, thanks A LOT.
Inspired by your water cooling knowledge, googled for it and found this also very handful explanation about WC:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky

And i started to learn a little more about the FPI, fittings etc... really interesting this water cooling world specool.gif
I think i'll do a small single loop with the swiftech h140-x, CPU+GPU, and see what temps i'll get.
By comparison, i found that this 140mm rad from h140-x is capable of ~280/300w TDP.
I also have some noctua fans, and for me they are the best performance/silence on the market, and, knowing this, i ordered with the h140-x a 1x140mm Noctua NF-A14 industrialPPC-2000 PWM to use with push config. It have really high static pressure and looks cool than other noctua fans biggrin.gif
Thanks again.
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post #30 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svictorcc View Post

Man, for now on, you are my water cooling Master! teaching.gif
A real high level class you give me, thanks A LOT.
Inspired by your water cooling knowledge, googled for it and found this also very handful explanation about WC:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky

And i started to learn a little more about the FPI, fittings etc... really interesting this water cooling world specool.gif
I think i'll do a small single loop with the swiftech h140-x, CPU+GPU, and see what temps i'll get.
By comparison, i found that this 140mm rad from h140-x is capable of ~280/300w TDP.
I also have some noctua fans, and for me they are the best performance/silence on the market, and, knowing this, i ordered with the h140-x a 1x140mm Noctua NF-A14 industrialPPC-2000 PWM to use with push config. It have really high static pressure and looks cool than other noctua fans biggrin.gif
Thanks again.
Thank you for the comments and rep wink.gif

I've actually looked at the same fan you mention there, but decided to wait buying a new one untill I can see the performance of a the 120mm I have now smile.gif

Hehe, can see you are getting all caught up in the watercooling hobby. Many leave it as single-aio cooling solution and thats fine as well, but it is a very giving hobby if you indulge yourself in it thumb.gif
Getting used to it all using a customizeable loop like the H140-x seems like a good idea smile.gif

Best watercooling site, ever
Here is the best water-cooling site I've found through all the years. Its not being updated more really, but the info he provides is still valid http://martinsliquidlab.org/

About choosing equipment based on fpi etc. It is really tough to pick the right equipment based on listings like fpi, static pressure etc. as there are so very many factors in play, but that is what makes it fun I think - ohh, and also expensive smile.gif

Controlling fans etc.
I can recommend looking into software for your motherboard which might be used to control the fans. Or use SpeedFan if nothing is available from your MB manufacturer.
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Materials and Galvanic corrosion
For some reason the reviews doesnt often mention the materials of the waterblocks, reservoirs or fittings anymore, which is a real shame, as it is all important!

Why then?
Well, mixing different materials is going to lead to Galvanic corrosion. Even if you have anti-corrosion or corrosionblocker in the water. It's nok like it starts visibly corroding after a week, but it will happen over time.
Martinsliquidlab really explains it in a great way with lots of illustraitions in Galvanic Corrosion Explored
I borrowed a table from Martin and highlighted the Aluminum values. The original can be found in the above link to Martinsliquidlab:
LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

Real World example: I had a system with a lot of waterblocks in it. Mostly copper based, but the reservoir was an aquatube from Aquacomputer. My reservoir was coated in something that should prevent corrosion, but the coating was slowly worn away from the anti-fungus in the system, and from the aquajet rinsing device, where it was screwed into the reservoir.
The reservoir bubled up around the G1/4 hole and I had to disassembly the entire loop to clean every last piece of it. And I was Lucky that it only killed my res.
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