Intel X299 (Socket 2066) VRM thread - Page 15 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

Intel X299 (Socket 2066) VRM thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #141 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-04-2017, 11:05 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
DNMock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,379
Rep: 168 (Unique: 123)
Just as a heads up running aida 64 at 4.6 ghz 7900X, (CPU under water ofcourse) at 1.3 volts, no such crazy temps to report, 55 to 60 degrees tops across the board. Will try cranking it higher tomorrow, but its getting late tonight.

At minimum Aorous 9 Gigabyte board seems to handle the temps just fine (as long as you got a good water loop to aid it)

edit:

Added bonus, got some 3200 mhz gskill ram for my old x99 board that I could only top out at 2666 at 1.4 volts on the x99 platform. Hit XMP for the X299 platform and it runs at that just smooth as butter.


DNMock is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #142 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 08:34 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

Just as a heads up running aida 64 at 4.6 ghz 7900X, (CPU under water ofcourse) at 1.3 volts, no such crazy temps to report, 55 to 60 degrees tops across the board. Will try cranking it higher tomorrow, but its getting late tonight.

At minimum Aorous 9 Gigabyte board seems to handle the temps just fine (as long as you got a good water loop to aid it)

edit:

Added bonus, got some 3200 mhz gskill ram for my old x99 board that I could only top out at 2666 at 1.4 volts on the x99 platform. Hit XMP for the X299 platform and it runs at that just smooth as butter.

Did you delid it?
Ajjlmauen is offline  
post #143 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 02:28 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
DNMock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,379
Rep: 168 (Unique: 123)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajjlmauen View Post

Did you delid it?

nope


DNMock is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #144 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 03:03 PM
⎬⎛⎝⎠⎞⎨
 
TK421's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,228
Rep: 157 (Unique: 122)
Is the delid tool even out for sale yet?

nͫٴiͤٴcͫٴeͤ੮Һ૯ ცɿ૭ ૭คעٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴ ٴٴٴ
Desktop for gaming
(17 items)
ThinkPad T480
(9 items)
ThinkPad T430 XM
(9 items)
CPU
i7 5820K
Motherboard
X99 Deluxe
GPU
RTX 2080 Ti XC Ultra
RAM
Crucial 4x4GB
Hard Drive
Samsung 950 Pro 512GB
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
Hard Drive
WD Black 4TB
Hard Drive
WD Red 10TB
Optical Drive
Dell CH03N BD
Power Supply
EVGA 750 G2
Cooling
Swiftech Drive H360X3
Case
Phanteks Enthoo Luxe
Operating System
Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 1809
Monitor
BenQ XL2430T
Monitor
ASUS PG279Q
Keyboard
Bloody B850
Mouse
Logitech G102 Prodigy (Mercury)
CPU
i7 8550U
Motherboard
Lenovo Windu-2 20L5
GPU
Intel UHD 620
RAM
F4-3000C16D-16GRS | 2x8GB 2400MHz
Hard Drive
Intel NVME SSD 256GB
Power Supply
Lenovo 65w USB-C
Cooling
Delta 01YR200
Operating System
Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 1809
Monitor
LP140WF6-SPB7 FHD IPS
CPU
i7 3920XM
Motherboard
Nozomi 4 Type 2344 BZU
GPU
Intel HD4000
RAM
F3-2133C11-8GSRL | 2x8GB 2133MHz
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 Pro 256GB
Power Supply
Lenovo 90W
Operating System
Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 1809
Monitor
AUO B140HAN01.3
Keyboard
Classic 7-row NMB 45N2211
▲ hide details ▲


TK421 is offline  
post #145 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 03:10 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
ManyThreads's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 99
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK421 View Post

Is the delid tool even out for sale yet?

Silicon Lottery has delidded X299 chips available for purchase now, so I am guessing a tool is out there unless they use a custom solution.
ManyThreads is offline  
post #146 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 05:55 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Near Dallas, TX
Posts: 29
Rep: 0
I don't need to delid for a conservative overclock on a 7820X chip with a good air cooler, do I???
CSE HTML Validator is offline  
post #147 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 06:58 PM
5.3 Ghz 8 Core When
 
aDyerSituation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,288
Rep: 93 (Unique: 66)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSE HTML Validator View Post

I don't need to delid for a conservative overclock on a 7820X chip with a good air cooler, do I???

Conservative as in 4.5 on all cores? Nah not from what I have seen. There are people in other threads pegging 4.7-4.8 with 240-280 AIO coolers with reasonable temps.

I think you'll be fine.

Dang
(16 items)
CPU
i7 7820x @ 4.6ghz, 3.2ghz Mesh Delidded
Motherboard
X299 ASUS ROG Strix-E
GPU
MSI Quicksilver 1070 8GB
RAM
32gb 3800mhz 16-17-16-37-1T (Model F4-3600C16Q-32GTZKK)
Hard Drive
Intel 730 256gb SSD
Hard Drive
Intel 530 256gb SSD
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 2TB HDD
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD
Power Supply
EVGA 750w G2
Cooling
Deepcool Captain 240EX White
Case
NZXT H440
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
AOC G2460PF 24” 144hz FreeSync
Mouse
Zowie EC1-A
Mouse
Huge
Other
Dr Pepper, Monster, and Vape
▲ hide details ▲
aDyerSituation is offline  
post #148 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 07:08 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Near Dallas, TX
Posts: 29
Rep: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by aDyerSituation View Post

Conservative as in 4.5 on all cores? Nah not from what I have seen. There are people in other threads pegging 4.7-4.8 with 240-280 AIO coolers with reasonable temps.

I think you'll be fine.

Yeah, probably 4.5 or 4.3 on all cores. Glad to hear it.

But when will the 7820X and the motherboards be readily available for retail (or less) price? I should probably hold out to see what people say about Threadripper though... but I am getting itchy to build my new machine.

I also want the new G.SKILL DDR4 3600 RAM that's suppose to be released soon and is geared for X299 systems. I haven't seen that available yet either.
CSE HTML Validator is offline  
post #149 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 07:37 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
elmor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 817
Rep: 333 (Unique: 146)
I was doing some market research the last week, thought you guys might be interested. Some prerequisites you need to know is that most of the time the VRM temperaure reading is from a thermistor placed somewhere near the VRM, essentially measuring the PCB temperature in that area. Typically the delta between PCB and MOSFET junction is around 5*C/W. This is 5*C temperature increase per Watt dissipated by the MOSFET, so directly related to the efficiency (typically 90-94% depending on load).

For example, at 300W output with 90% efficiency means input power is 330W. That's 30W dissipated mainly by the MOSFETs. Using 8 phases gives 30/8 = 3.75W per MOSFET. Delta between PCB and MOSFET junction is then 5*3.75 = 18.75*C, so if you're hitting throttling when the VRM is reading 105*C you're looking at 105+18.75=123.75*C MOSFET junction temperature. All the MOSFETs mentioned in this post have recommended max junction temperature (continuous) at 125*C and absolute max ratings (short term) around 140-150*C.

Without delidding, you're looking at CPU power consumption of max 250W on 6/8/10C with a good AIO cooler when increasing Tjmax to 105*C (94*C default). After delidding, or considering higher core count CPUs, this number is increased to the 300-400W range. If you add 1+1, you can figure out why so many boards do not have better VRM cooling.

At 250W output you're looking at roughly 140A of current at 1.8V VCCIN. Most VRMs for X299 are rated at 400A or more, which is overkill. This is, of course, assuming that you can take care of the heat generated by the VRM at that output current. The kicker here is that this limit is the same no matter how many phases a board has. Going to higher phase counts doesn't change efficiency by much. And, you still have the same total power dissipation from the VRM that you have to remove within a very limited footprint. If you have the same heatsink for two VRMs which are identical except for phase count, you will still be limited to the same max continuous output current.


ASUS X299

Solutions are all ASP1405 in 7/8-phase mode. Most are using 7/8x IR3555 (60A), except for the two TUF boards which use 7/8x IR3535 + BSG0812. Rating without considering thermals is 480A output (420A with 7 phases) for IR3555 based boards, and 400A/350A with BSG0812. VR_HOT is triggered at 105*C. Switching frequency is 500 KHz. The only difference between boards are the inductors and the heatsink solution. Prime X299-A/Strix X299-E/TUF X299 Mark2 have 7 phases for VCCIN, Prime X299-Deluxe/TUF X299 Mark1 have 8 phases.

Nothing new here, same VRMs as on the X99 models. You can check der8auer's video on what to expect from the heatsinks, about 250W continuous on Prime X299-A/Strix X299-E Gaming/Prime X299-Deluxe. TUF X299 Mark1 is slightly better because the backplate helps dissipate the VRM heat (5-10*C lower at same output). That's inside a case with minimal airflow and stressing the GPU at the same time. Rampage VI Apex is capable of 340W continuous output due to an improved heatsink design.


Gigabyte X299

X299 AORUS Gaming 3 and X299 AORUS Gaming 9 both use IR35201 in 8-phase mode using 8x IR3556 (50A). Rating without considering thermals is 400A. VR_HOT is triggered at 117*C.

Design is pretty much the same as the ASUS boards except for using slightly de-rated power stages (IR3556 vs IR3555). Only thing that might cause some concern is the higher throttling limit, which also allows the VRM to pull a bit more power than the competitors. Using the example from above at 300W output you'll be at 130-135*C MOSFET junction temperature before throttling. Depending on the test scenario (inside a case or open test bench) you can output about 280-290W continuously on both models.


MSI X299

Best case first, X299 Gaming M7 ACK. This thing has IR35201 in 5-phase mode, doubled using IR3599 to 10x IR3555 (60A). Rating without considering thermals is 600A. VR_HOT is triggered at 105*C. Switching frequency is configured at 300 KHz, after doubling this is effectively 150 KHz.

Quite a nice VRM setup, but the LED infused heatsink is not great. As described above, there's no point to have this many phases when the heatsink is unable to dissipate enough heat for it to make a difference. From my own testing, about 230W continuous output is what you're looking at without direct airflow before reaching 105*C. That's on an open test bed at 27*C ambient.

Going down in price, things are getting interesting with MSI. X299 Tomahawk Arctic is also using an IR35201 controller, but this time in 4-phase mode. This is then doubled to 8-phase and driven using IR3598. 4-phases are on top and 4-phases at the bottom. Each phase consists of 2x NIKOS PK616BA for high-side and 2x NIKOS PK632BA for low-side. It's a bit more complicated to calculate theoretical max for this configuration, but without considering the heatsink a simple estimate is the high-side continuous current at 25*C ambient temperature. This gives 2x13A = 26A per phase, total 208A (same method for IR3555 yields a derating from 60A to 56A).

Not sure what to say about this board, I'll let my test data speak for itself. The heatsink is a metal plate with another piece screwed on top. Going into the OS fully idle at desktop with a 10C CPU, the VRM thermistor is reading 60*C. Power output at this point is roughly 10W. After Prime95 testing, I had to settle for 175W output before reaching the 105*C thermal limit of the VRM. As with the other MSI board, this was on an open test bench without direct airflow on the VRM.


ASRock X299

The board I tested was the Fatal1ty X299 Professional Gaming i9. A little bit of a surprise here, they went with an Intersil ISL69138. It's configured in 6-phase mode with doubling to 12 phases using ISL6617. For output they use ISL99227 power stages which are rated to 60A. Rating without considering thermals is 720A. Thermal throttling occurs when then power stage reaches 140*C (using internal sense).

ASRock has a very nice design here capable of very high theoretical output. However, the power dissipation issue still remains and the heatsink is just as underpowered as the others. Because of the higher throttling limit (measured 132*C at the center of the inductors close to power stages), it's able to accommodate up to 320W output power before throttling. A cause of concern here is that at this point the power stage will be close to 140*C, while the recommended continuous temperature is the same as the others at 125*C. Same test scenario, open test bed and 27*C ambient.


Pictures

VRM and heatsink pictures
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
ASUS Prime X299-A VRM




ASUS Prime X299-Deluxe VRM




ASUS Prime X299-A/Deluxe heatsink




ASUS ROG Strix X299-E VRM




ASUS ROG Strix X299-E heatsink




ASUS TUF X299 Mark1 backplate




ASUS TUF X299 Mark1 heatsink




Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 3 VRM




Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 3 heatsink




X299 Aorus Gaming 9 VRM




X299 Aorus Gaming 9 heatsink




X299 Aorus Gaming 9 backplate




X299 Aorus Gaming 9 backplate (showing no contact between backplate and VRM)




MSI X299 Gaming M7 ACK VRM




MSI X299 Gaming M7 ACK heatsink




MSI X299 Tomahawk Arctic VRM





MSI X299 Tomahawk Arctic heatsink




X299 Xpower Gaming AC VRM




X299 Xpower Gaming AC VRM back




X299 Xpower Gaming AC VRM heatsink




ASRock X299 Professional Gaming i9 VRM




ASRock X299 Professional Gaming i9 heatsink


TLDR

Wattage numbers are roughly +/- 10W depending on measurement errors and ambient/error differences. Measurements are of VCCIN output power using VRM controller telemetry and confirmed by 12V input current clamp to make sure values are reliable.

Motherboard 12V connectors VRM config Throttling threshold Tj when throttling Theoretical output current Heatsink performance Max output power
Asrock X299 Professional Gaming i9 1x 8-pin ISL69138 + 12x (6x2) ISL99227 ~130*C 140*C 720A Average 320W
Asus Prime X299-A 1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pin ASP1405 + 7x IR3555 105*C 110*C 420A Average 250W
Asus Prime X299-Deluxe 1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pin ASP1405 + 8x IR3555 105*C 109*C 480A Average 250W
Asus Strix X299-E 1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pin ASP1405 + 7x IR3555 105*C 110*C 420A Average 250W
Asus TUF X299 Mark1 1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pin ASP1405 + 8xBSG0812 105*C 109*C 400A Average 260W
Asus TUF X299 Mark2 1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pin ASP1405 + 7xBSG0812 105*C 109*C 350A Average 260W
Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex 2x 8-pin ASP1405 + 8x IR3555 110*C 115*C 480A Good 340W
Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 3 1x 8-pin IR35201 + 8x IR3556 117*C 121*C 400A Average 280W
Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 9 2x 8-pin IR35201 + 8x IR3556 117*C 121*C 400A Average 280W
MSI X299 Tomahawk Arctic 1x 8-pin IR35201 + 8x (4x2) 2xPK616BA + 2xPK632BA 105*C ~112*C 208A Bad 175W
MSI X299 Gaming M7 ACK 1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pin IR35201 + 10x (5x2) IR3555 105*C 108*C 600A Average 230W
MSI X299 Xpower Gaming AC 1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pin IR35201 + 12x (6x2) IR3555 102*C 103*C 720A Average+ 300W


12V connectors Max input power Highest CPU recommended
1x 8-pin 288W 10C not delidded
1x 8-pin + 1x 4-pin 432W 10C delidded or up to 18C not delidded
2x 8-pin 576W Any CPU


edit: Updated info regarding Prime X299-A and Strix X299-E
edit2: Updated test scenario info for Asus boards
edit3: Updated with X299 Aorus Gaming 9 and restructured
edit4: Updated with Rampage VI Apex data
edit5: Updated with corrected spec for Mark1, and added Mark2
edit6: Updated with X299 Xpower Gaming AC
elmor is offline  
post #150 of 1199 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 08:12 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
ManyThreads's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 99
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Fantastic post elmor, thank you so much.

Can I please ask you to comment further on the TUF Mark 1 VRM / Heatsink - I have a couple of questions:

1) If it is indeed covered in plastic, does that have a negative effect on cooling? Is it possible or useful to remove the plastic just on the VRM heatsink?

2) Will the TUF Mark 1 VRM be able to handle a modest OC to 4.5-4.6 on a 7820X? I don't think I can afford a R6A/E - I assume they will be $600+ in Canada.

3) Does the Gigabyte Gaming 7 have a better VRM / Heatsink combo than the TUF Mark 1? I'd like to stick with ASUS but I am very concerned about the VRMs.

Thanks again.
ManyThreads is offline  
Reply

Tags
x299 vrm

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off