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post #2141 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 01:40 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by asdkj1740 View Post
hardwareunbox said all z370 are going to support 8c16t new cpu.
Cool, and do you think the 9900k will be ok on such a motherboard? No issue OCing such a beast on it?

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post #2142 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 01:57 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by asdkj1740 View Post
hardwareunbox said all z370 are going to support 8c16t new cpu.
One thing is support from vendor and second overheating VRMS and thermal throttling.
It is hapening so often on different platforms so I rather trust guys on forums and not vendors.

btw new video from Buildzoid about z390 gigabyte is out

Last edited by winter2; 10-06-2018 at 02:54 PM.
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post #2143 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 02:06 PM
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I am considering going from 8600K to 9700K, hope my 10 phase MSI Z370 SLI PLUS does well with overclocking it.

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post #2144 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 07:01 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by fullderp View Post
EDIT:
I just found some foreign news link, claiming the Z390 ITX AC (the basic one) is 6 phase only, I would like to think it's good enough but I defer to the experts here.
5 Phases IR > 6 Phases Powerblock.

Last edited by F-man4; 10-06-2018 at 07:53 PM.
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post #2145 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-06-2018, 11:47 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by winter2 View Post
One thing is support from vendor and second overheating VRMS and thermal throttling.
It is hapening so often on different platforms so I rather trust guys on forums and not vendors.

btw new video from Buildzoid about z390 gigabyte is out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVUON93T2j4
<125C overheat is not a problem if the power/cpu usage/voltage/cpu frequecncy do not drop.
what gigabyte has done on z370 beside the thermal pad thickness problem is that they have tweaked to very low thermal limits to the vrm casuing lots of drops on above factors hurting performance. the limit is like ~90c vrm temp.

i tested the z390 ud and put 1.42v on the vcore on prime95 small fft for ~30mins, even the vrm was near 110c, no any throttling at all.
i am not saying the cheapest ud mobo is good enough for all extensive workloads but it definitely helps extending the time before throttlings.

i am very curious on how 9900k behaves on stock as 9900k have super high turbo boost clock for all 8c that we may dont even need to manually overclock it to gain any practical benefit from it. i cant say for now that the cheapest gigabyte z390 can serve 9900k at stock well, this is the most interesting part to the z390 ann 9900k.

a golden sample of 9900k es can do 5.3ghz <1.4v on cinebench, same as 8700k.

Last edited by asdkj1740; 10-07-2018 at 12:01 AM.
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post #2146 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 02:43 AM
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gigabyte z390 gaming x

8+4 eps cpu connector
ISL69138 in 5+2 mode
vcore 4C06N+4C10N
5*ISL6617A doublers
10*ISL6625A drivers
therefore 10 doubled
1.5mm thick thermal pad, the thermal conductivity seems to be the same as on z370 which is 1.8w/mk according to mattewh.

the heatsink design is better than that on z370 hd3p, and should be close to that on z370 ultra gaming.
not too bad, but dont good enough too.

for the igpu part, the mosfets are marked as 4c06 and 4c10 too, but in significantly small package.
the drivers behind are two isl6596. it proves that isl6596 is not a doubler although in its datasheet "Drives two N-Channel MOSFETs" is stated.
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Last edited by asdkj1740; 10-07-2018 at 02:58 AM.
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post #2147 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 03:06 AM
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z390 ud, cheapest atx model of gigabyte z390.
the vrm design are identical to z390 gamingx, but the heatsink is worse...
i dont like gigabyte using heatsink desgin to differentiate product positioning.


8+4 eps cpu connector
ISL69138 in 5+2 mode

vcore 4C06N+4C10N
5*ISL6617A doublers
10*ISL6625A drivers
therefore 10 doubled vcore

igpu 4C06+4C10 in very samll package
no doublers
2*ISL6596 drivers
therefore 2 phases for igpu

(black 1.8w/mk) 1.5mm thick thermal pad is being used too.
larid 5w/mk seems to be used only on z390 aorus master, and as far as i know larid 5w/mk is not in black color, i have been using the same model on my z370 ug2.0, they are very good and very expensive compared to 3m ~1w/mk pad.
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Last edited by asdkj1740; 10-07-2018 at 03:29 AM.
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post #2148 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 04:33 AM
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i pick z390 ud to test with 8700k because it is the cheapest atx model. i would like to see how far can this cheapest atx model go.

the bios on ud series (ud/gaming x/gaming sli) has the old unchanged user interface. the new user interface seems to be limited on aorus series.

for llc, there is a new level called ultra extreme, which overshoot almost 0.1v. i set 1.35v but on hwinfo64 it reports 1.43v.
on turbo mode slighly drops 0.05 only. i set 1.35 and on hwinfo64 it reports 1.344 lowest. but i also try setting it to 1.4v and it eventually drops to 1.38v.
didnt try the extreme mode but i would go for turbo mode only becuase you should not try 1.4v on this mobo.

for power limit watt and power limit time, the max units are 4090 and 127 respectively.
you cant type 9999 or 2555 to get the max level. very stupid bios lol.
core current limit is greyed out, cant tweak this at all, at leaset on f3 bios.

the lastest BETA version of hwinfo64 can read out the ite monitoring controller, otherwise temp 5 refers to vrm mos temp and temp 3 refers to cpu socket temp.

setup:
z390 ud f3 bios, maxed out all power limit watt and time and disabling all c states.
open bench, placing the z390 ud on top of a large size foam (vrm heat on the pcb back side got trapped)
amibent temp 25c
8700k(not delidded and delidded afterward)
dual fans d15s cpu cooler, with another enermax 2000rpm 120mm fan mounted to the front side pushing.
adata xpg z1 3600c17 8g*2 samsung b die xmp enabled
gigabyte gt1030 lp for graphics output
was using antec hcp 850, but one of the wire accidentially got pulled off from the 24pin connector lol, changed to acbel i90m 700 (with dual 8pin eps cpu connector)

running prime95 small ftt preset
8700k 5ghz (didnt delidded )1.4v gives me cpu package power ~210w and cpu 120c, shutdown immediately lol.
then i delid it to aviod cpu temp throttling and instability.

turbro llc, maxing out all power limit, 5ghz cpu, xmp ddr4 3600.
for 1.35v vcore, the mos temp reported by hwinfo64 starts at 88c then go up to 93c after few minutes. i think the large foam under the mobo traps a lot of heat.
for 1.4v vcore, starts at 86c then go to 106c max on vrm temp reported by hwinfo64.

tried to put a 8cm fan at 1500rpm pushing air vertically to the heatsink and result in only 4c mos temp drop; putting the fan blowing air to the side of the heatsink gets ~10c drop on mos temp.
however, even at 106c, there is not any throttling at all.

at 1.35v, i use thermal ir gun gif to check the vrm back side pcb temp, ~91c.

about ddr4 overclocking, gigabyte has been doing great on xmp mode, but they are suck at manually tweaking. again, i cant oc the xpg 3600c17 8g*2 b die above the xmp rated frequency.

some thoughts:
1. you should not go above 1.35v vcore on z390 ud, the vrm heatsink cant take that for prime95.
2. turbo mode on llc is good enough. dont try ultra extreme mode. you could try extreme mode.
3. 200w is easy for z390 ud to handle on 8700k. however given the vrm temp at 1.35v vcore, i doubt ud z390 can go significantly further.
4. z390 ud is at least on par with z370 ultra gaming 2.0. stop buying z370 except the refresh models like asus z370 a ii(it is 8+1 but that 8 is in parallel). gigabyte cheapest 10 phases z390 smashes them.
5. i sincerely ask for ddr4 manual oc guide on gigabyte mobo.
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Last edited by asdkj1740; 10-07-2018 at 04:40 AM.
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post #2149 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx to @asdkj1740 @GBT-MatthewH and @AlphaC for all your informative stuff posted.
Unfortunately I'm ways to busy to dive deep into Z390 VRMs so I'm just gonna try to fill things up in the list. So just complain right away if I got things wrong.
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post #2150 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 03:56 PM
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@ asdkj1740 , I would never test anything thermally on foam unless you're trying to thermally isolate it from the table. Foam is a thermal insulator (what you have there looks to be on par with air conditioning foam actually), you'd be even better off just putting a bolt + nut with a few mm length on the corners and just having it empty underneath the board ; it'd also represent a case scenario better.

Also if it's a low priced "UD" or Gaming X non-Aorus board I wouldn't expect that much from it. If it performs at least at a midrange level it is already better than expected. Even feature-wise they aren't really differentiated from other brands' boards other than the Dual BIOS ; the brown tinged PCB suggesting possibly low thickness isn't going to be compelling to many people as well.

For Aorus boards I would think the audio section (MASTER has the high precision clock source , that I know) with WIMA caps, thermal headers, thermal sensors, post code on Master/Ultra, as well as dual BIOS features attract more performance-oriented buyers while RGB + cleaner design (i.e. vs ASUS STRIX grafitti) attracts the aesthetic minded ones. I'm unsure on how much of a price difference there will be between the Ultra,Pro , and Elite. However, the main difference I see is the post code on the Ultra and the heatpipe retained on the Pro but not on the Elite.



Chopping off "Gaming" in favor of names such as Elite/Pro/Ultra/Master should also net some sales , unless buyers are outright searching for "gaming" in the motherboard name. I believe that it is similar to how ROG is abbreviated for Republic of Gamers. We see a similar evolution in MSI's lineup where "MEG" supposedly is abbreviated enthusiast gaming and MPG is performance gaming whatever those terms are supposed to mean.

If you trust in the engineers' ability to select & size inductors, the very fact that the new mid-end Aorus boards use R30 (300nH) chokes versus R40 (400nH) ones suggests there is a lower ripple output versus previous midrange Z370. Boards such as the MSI Z370 M5 were using R40 , MSI's Z370 Pro Carbon was using R42. The Z370 Taichi + K6 were using R22 Cooper Bussman 60A inductors ; the Z370 Gaming 7 from Gigabyte had 150nH inductors from Cooper Bussman's Coiltronics (http://www1.cooperbussmann.com/pdf/7...9b2be9f2e4.pdf).

I believe anyone that ever considered Gigabyte a choice for motherboards should be stoked as to the new state of the Aorus boards , it seems every Z390 Aorus board has capability to be a respectable VRM.

Also here's a Geekbench on the Aorus MASTER with i9-9900k : 6200+ single core https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/compare/9980316?baseline=9931617

---------------------

Asrock Z390 Phantom Gaming 9 preview: https://news.xfastest.com/asrock/54351/asrock-z390-phantom-gaming-9-z390-taichi/



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Last edited by AlphaC; 10-07-2018 at 04:34 PM.
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