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post #2241 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 09:31 PM
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@GBT-MatthewH Is there a reason why the Aorus Master is using IR3553 40A DrMOS vs SiC634 50A DrMOS in the Aorus Ultra/Pro? On paper it seems like the SiC634 is a superior mosfet. The ISL6617A used on Ultra/Pro boards also seems like a superior doubler since it has current balancing capability.
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post #2242 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 10:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by HKPolice View Post
@GBT-MatthewH Is there a reason why the Aorus Master is using IR3553 40A DrMOS vs SiC634 50A DrMOS in the Aorus Ultra/Pro? On paper it seems like the SiC634 is a superior mosfet. The ISL6617A used on Ultra/Pro boards also seems like a superior doubler since it has current balancing capability.
You will see when we can release benchmarks with 9900k. There is a reason IR is more expensive. Higher capacity != lower temps

Edit: Also for the IR there is current balancing, however it happens before the doubler not at the doubler. Let me prefaced this by saying I am not a VRM expert like Alpha/Buildzoid/etc but my understanding is its an order of operations thing - In the end its not like the IR solution will push 30A to one phase and 10A to the other. Others will be able to measure it and explain it more clearly when tests come out.

Tl;Dr on the ISL solution balancing happens at the doubler, on the IR solution it happens at the PWM controller. Tests should show the IR is cooler - look at the 8700K results

Last edited by GBT-MatthewH; 10-10-2018 at 10:18 PM.
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post #2243 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 11:53 PM
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Set them to run at 5ghz 1.35v pls.
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post #2244 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 01:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by jasonwaterfalls View Post
Is this true for the MATX version as well? Z390M Gaming Edge AC. I'm trying to decide between the ASUS TUF Z390M and the MSI Z390M Gaming Edge AC, but I'm having a hard time of it. The MSI VRMs don't look very well cooled, which from what I understand was true on the Z370 version as well. The TUF looks better cooled, but I'm unsure of the VRM quality itself.
Same. I'm probably going mATX this time. MSI Z390M Edge AC looks great (I'm not sure if LED can be turned off in BIOS/UEFI tho, I hope so?!) - Any have experience with MSI boards knows if Mystic Light can be disabled WITHOUT windows software?

According to Anandtech MSI Z390M Gaming Edge AC is 8 phases
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13407...ard-analyzed/2

Not sure about the ASUS TUF Z390M, I can't find much info about it - It's only 8 pin but looks like some boards on Anandtech's list have better VRM with 8 than 8+4 ??

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Last edited by Lass3; 10-11-2018 at 04:25 AM.
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post #2245 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 04:57 AM
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Wow Matthewh this time rocks. Full of power to smash everything lol.😆
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post #2246 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 05:28 AM
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Do you have any infos regarding the MSI Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon and STRIX Z390-F? I was looking for a motherboard in the 200 euros price range and I am thinking about one of these two, I don't know which ones is better tho, I found no informations yet. I was wondering about the Z390 Aorus Pro as well but I am not a fan of gigabyte bios.

Last edited by InsB; 10-11-2018 at 05:37 AM.
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post #2247 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 06:41 AM
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Also looking for some 'budget' motherboard for my 9900k @ 4.9-5 ghz. I dont really care about LEDs, extra ports and all that kind of stuff.

Could someone help me to choose new motherboard from this website?
https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/...ype:Intel+Z370

Im not a specialist, but i think that aorus pro should be enough for 5ghz, am i right? Also, is there any difference in vrms/cooling between elite and pro?

Thank you.
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post #2248 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 06:58 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lass3 View Post
Same. I'm probably going mATX this time. MSI Z390M Edge AC looks great (I'm not sure if LED can be turned off in BIOS/UEFI tho, I hope so?!) - Any have experience with MSI boards knows if Mystic Light can be disabled WITHOUT windows software?

According to Anandtech MSI Z390M Gaming Edge AC is 8 phases
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13407...ard-analyzed/2

Not sure about the ASUS TUF Z390M, I can't find much info about it - It's only 8 pin but looks like some boards on Anandtech's list have better VRM with 8 than 8+4 ??
if the MSI Z390M Gaming Edge AC is using up9521 then it cant be real 8 phases. it could only be doubled 8 or 8 in parallel.
it is easy to check on msi mobo, the mosfets solder points on the back of the pcb show whether two phases are linked together or not, if they are pointing to each other then it is in parellel design.

however, among other mobo on the same price range, msi has the best vrm heatsink which help a lot.
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post #2249 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 07:53 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Cpfan1 View Post
Also looking for some 'budget' motherboard for my 9900k @ 4.9-5 ghz. I dont really care about LEDs, extra ports and all that kind of stuff.

Could someone help me to choose new motherboard from this website?
https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/...ype:Intel+Z370

Im not a specialist, but i think that aorus pro should be enough for 5ghz, am i right? Also, is there any difference in vrms/cooling between elite and pro?

Thank you.
If the Aorus Pro can't do 5GHz non-AVX with the i9 I would be surprised , the power delivery is stronger than the Z390 ROG Maximus Hero. That's really not even debatable by the most diehard ASUS-only users, since they're using the same family of powerstages (with 50A rating in both cases) but 12 instead of 8 of them and also using ISL6617 doublers. The differences between the Aorus Ultra & Pro are featureset and the VRM heatsink : the Ultra has more surface area at the heatsink, USB 3.1 gen 2 front panel connector ,USB DAC UP, 3rd M.2, ESS chip for audio, and a debug code LED rather than LEDS that indicate which part (CPU/VGA/RAM) is not working right.


From what I see on the Gigabyte site, the Ultra lights up the VRM heatsink while the Pro (WIFI) lights up the RAM slots, so there's that. Not important though.


Between the elite and pro versions, I would definitely go for the Pro. Everywhere I've looked in Europe and North America the price difference is minor (about $10/ 10 € not including VAT). The Elite is packing Taiwanese capacitors from Apaq rather than the black FP Caps on the Aorus Pro. In addition, it loses the heatpipe that distributes heat between both VRM heatsinks which may result in higher likelihood for hot spots. Mentioned a few pages ago, but it also drops the thermal sensor and fan support to 6 sensors and 5 headers (instead of 10 sensors and 8 headers with 2 thermal probe header).

Aorus Pro WIFI 207.90 €: https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/...aorus-pro-wifi
Aorus Pro 194.90 € : https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/...z390-aorus-pro
Aorus Elite 181.90 €: https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/...90-aorus-elite

Here's steven's unedited teardown of the Pro non-WIFI model

Ultimately all the Aorus boards aren't budget boards. They're really midrange boards with improved VRM if you look at featureset. They're priced relative to the midrange Z390-A from ASUS it looks like.
(To me, budget board would be something that is just above the cheapest boards with ALC892 or some other cut down featureset. Think ASUS TUF / MSI Tomahawk)

--------------
Quote: Originally Posted by InsB View Post
Do you have any infos regarding the MSI Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon and STRIX Z390-F? I was looking for a motherboard in the 200 euros price range and I am thinking about one of these two, I don't know which ones is better tho, I found no informations yet. I was wondering about the Z390 Aorus Pro as well but I am not a fan of gigabyte bios.
Z390 Pro Carbon is probably 10X 4c029n+4c024n with a UPI9521 PWM in 5+1 (see hwjournal) unless it's 8X via 4+2. Nothing particularly amazing since it's similar to a budget Gigabyte board.
Z390-F is using 8x NCP302045 45A rated ONsemi powerstages with a rebranded PWM. It's a stronger board but it's a reskinned Z390-A.

Preview (German) https://www.hw-journal.de/testberich...owall=&start=3
Review (french) https://www.hardwarecooking.fr/test-...g-pro-carbon/5

Z390 Aorus Pro is on the level of the ROG Maximus XI Hero at least from what we know. It's using the same family of Vishay 50A rated Powerstages (SIC634) as the Maximus XI Hero which has 8x SiC639 , but it also is using ISL6617 doublers and 12 of them. I've also seen the aorus audio implementation scoring on computerbase and it is above that of the Maximus XI Hero.

--------------
@ Lass3

Z390M Gaming Edge AC is probably "8" phases obtained the same way as before:4 PWM phases with two phases connected together per channel.I have little faith in the UPI semiconductor 9521PWM.It's definitely weaker than the implementation by Gigabyte with 10 pairs of 4C10n+4C06n and doublers, although the 4C024+4C029N combination if used on the MSI board has a slight advantage per powerpak mosfet in terms of on state resistance (hence the Low(RDS)on term) and Gigabyte is using push pins to mount the VRM heatsink.

The TUF is similar to the Edge from what I can tell. Buying a TUF board is risky since they haven't supported their TUF lineup for overclocking very much, similar to the STRIX Z370-H (which isn't cheap price-wise at all). In this generation it appears the TUF and Z390-H don't have their AI overclocking ability with silicon quality rating and prediction, which is part of the convenience of buying an ASUS board. Right now it looks like the Z390 ROG Maximus Gene is the mATX board to buy (10X IR3555), but I'm not sure of the cost difference on that.Asus segments their boards quite clearly, ROG at the top , STRIX is essentially Z390-A level (except STRIX -H), and TUF is basic/budget(think non overclocking).

If you're thinking of buying the Z390M EDGE AC I would wait for reviews. The ASUS + Gigabyte boards are generally priced according to their performance this generation.Buying the MSI board is technically a gamble this early on.


---------------------------

Quote: Originally Posted by Recipe7 View Post
@AlphaC - Can you disway me from making the Maximus Formula XI as my motherboard of choice for z390? I am thinking it is the most obvious selection as i am already running a custom loop on my x99? My goal is higher clocks possible, like 5.3-5.4ghz if i find the right chip. I appreciate your input on all the mbs in discussion, definitely helpful

If you're buying a binned chip then anything less than Maximus XI Hero or Aorus Ultra (Pro if you can deal with lack of debug code LED) doesn't make sense.

The Taichi was a great board for Z370 but it's selling mainly on features this time around since the power delivery didn't get updated (looks like heatsink enlargement was the main change for power delivery). The headroom isn't as high this time.



If you are watercooling the VRM and the CPU you will likely have better results than people watercooling the Hero without a monoblock. ROG Hero + monoblock is about the cost of a Formula (and you don't get a OLED display or the backplate), so you'd save money if you were planning on buying a monoblock or custom VRM block for a hero.


So no, until monoblocks come out for Z390 I think that's your best bet if you plan on going for 53-54x multiplier given it is still 14nm process and that means most ambient OC will likely hit a wall at 5.2-5.3.


--------------------------

Confirmed Extreme4 was changed to UP9521:

https://www.clubedohardware.com.br/a...893/?nbcpage=5


---------------------------



Quote: Originally Posted by ZaknafeinGR View Post
Do you think the Z370 GBT Gaming 5 has a chance of properly handling the 9900K @ 5-5.2 with a monoblock or is that a rather ambitious plan? I know it will have issues without (as I ran into power delivery issues with the 8700K at 5.2+/1.4v+), just not sure if it's solely due to thermals.
It's ambitious , especially if AVX instructions are involved at all. If I were in your situation I would probably sell it off (also goes for Z370 STRIX , Z370 M5 + Pro Carbon, and Z370-A users) and buy the successor Aorus Ultra/Pro. If you buy a monoblock and it doesn't work out it will be more money and it will be difficult to offload a monoblock for a midrange motherboard that doesn't share a power design with the top end board.


If you had stated it is the i7-9700K then it would be slightly different. Putting a $500+ CPU into a $170 board with a $150 monoblock isn't balanced in any way; $250-300 CPU into a $170 board makes more sense.



The Aorus Ultra is the direct successor to Gaming 5 but the Pro shares the power delivery design with the Ultra.


----------------------------
Quote: Originally Posted by doom26464 View Post
Trying to find a board in the 300-350 Canadian range(200-250USD)
I will be doing x264 encoding(which If I recall is AVX workload) so wondering if I can get into a board that will handle a 5.0-5.1 ghz with AVX workload going.


If i have to push my price bracket up some I will take it into consideration.
x265 is AVX2 IIRC , while x264 should be AVX



I don't want to give wrong information so I think we need to wait until the 19th when NDA is up for anything definitive for AVX workloads.


From the power design on Z390, I would say Z390 Aorus Pro is the lowest one to watch (Ultra is 250 USD, Pro / Pro WIFI is ~$200 USD). It matches or exceeds Maximus XI Hero power design.

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Last edited by AlphaC; 10-11-2018 at 09:49 AM. Reason: OCN keeps adding spacing :(
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post #2250 of 4218 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 08:53 AM
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@AlphaC - Can you disway me from making the Maximus Formula XI as my motherboard of choice for z390? I am thinking it is the most obvious selection as i am already running a custom loop on my x99? My goal is higher clocks possible, like 5.3-5.4ghz if i find the right chip. I appreciate your input on all the mbs in discussion, definitely helpful

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