UPDATED: ASUS Z370 and Z390 Motherboard Series - Official Support Thread - Page 317 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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UPDATED: ASUS Z370 and Z390 Motherboard Series - Official Support Thread

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post #3161 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Martin778 View Post
What's the story behind the Vcore on Z390 Apex, it looks like it's much higher than what it reports - 1.20V LLC=6 set in BIOS reads 1.19V in HWInfo and drops under load to 1.14V , yet Cinebench still passes but 5.0GHz @ 1.14 is unreal.
I know it's a very strong chip that did 5.2GHz 1.28V stable on the Taichi in non-AVX (1h of RB and P95 26.6) but this is questionable at least.
I've noticed that my temps were much higher on the Apex than on the Taichi when using the same Vcore.

The board is very good (I've managed 4800 CL18 on RAM for a bench) very stable but that's cheating and unfair compared to other manufacturers...
https://i.imgur.com/pDR69mH.png
measure it off the board with a DMM and not using software-based tools that likely have not been updated for the new components... in addition to the different in the way the ASUS board's report vcore to the OS.

ASUS Z370/Z390 Motherboard Support Thread, Coffee Lake OC Guide
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post #3162 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 09:07 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Martin778 View Post
What's the story behind the Vcore on Z390 Apex, it looks like it's much higher than what it reports - 1.20V LLC=6 set in BIOS reads 1.19V in HWInfo and drops under load to 1.14V , yet Cinebench still passes but 5.0GHz @ 1.14 is unreal.
I know it's a very strong chip that did 5.2GHz 1.28V stable on the Taichi in non-AVX (1h of RB and P95 26.6) but this is questionable at least.
I've noticed that my temps were much higher on the Apex than on the Taichi when using the same Vcore.

The board is very good (I've managed 4800 CL18 on RAM for a bench) very stable but that's cheating and unfair compared to other manufacturers...
https://i.imgur.com/pDR69mH.png

There are captions in english. Video by ROG R&D Engineer Bing L.

Who's Bing L, brief mentions by elmor awhile ago.

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post #3163 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 02:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by encrypted11 View Post
There are captions in english. Video by ROG R&D Engineer Bing L.
Great video, thanks for linking that! This is exactly what Asus have been saying all along. Nice to see it with the multimeters.

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post #3164 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 12:56 AM
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Every other manufacturer can do it the normal way, with working software, everyone is happy. This has been fine for at least 10+ years.

Then come ASUS engineers with their "more accurate" and they throw every possible software reading into the garbage bin and now no one knows what the true voltage reading is and what to set the board to because when I set 1.2V and get higher thermals than board set to 1.28V I can assure you it's not outputting anywhere near 1.20V to the CPU.

Is it 1989 that I have to measure the voltages with a DMM? Maybe I need to connect my oscilloscope and curve tracer too?

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Last edited by Martin778; 02-11-2019 at 02:16 AM.
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post #3165 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 03:15 AM
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I have recently bought a binned 5.1GHz 9900K and while I am waiting for it to arrive I have to decide the motherboard.

At first, the Asus Maximus XI Extreme is on the lead because it is the best all-around for my needs I/O expansions and so on. But I am concerned about its VRM.
Will be enough to push the 9900K to higher clocks without worrying about them?

Other options which I am considering would be:

EVGA Z390 Dark (if It ever ships to EU)
Asus Apex

Motherboards with only two DDR4 slots are not my first options since I would have to buy 2 sticks for it. As I want 32GB of RAM on that system. And right now I do have 4x8 RAM modules waiting there.
But at the end of the day if VRM compromises the rest of the system I do not mind to buy them.

I am open to other options anyone could throw it here.

Cooling is not going to be a problem (for CPU).

Thanks for your advice.

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post #3166 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 03:49 AM
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It is not, I ran 1.20+ on the Asrock aswell.

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post #3167 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 05:12 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Martin778 View Post
Every other manufacturer can do it the normal way, with working software, everyone is happy. This has been fine for at least 10+ years.

Then come ASUS engineers with their "more accurate" and they throw every possible software reading into the garbage bin and now no one knows what the true voltage reading is and what to set the board to because when I set 1.2V and get higher thermals than board set to 1.28V I can assure you it's not outputting anywhere near 1.20V to the CPU.

Is it 1989 that I have to measure the voltages with a DMM? Maybe I need to connect my oscilloscope and curve tracer too?
Look at the video above. The new Asus vcore sensor matches the DMM almost perfectly at idle or load. The "good old" vcore sensor is way overstating voltage under load. Everybody has been working off inflated vcore numbers for a long time because we didn't have an accurate sensor.

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post #3168 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 05:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Martin778 View Post
Every other manufacturer can do it the normal way, with working software, everyone is happy. This has been fine for at least 10+ years.

Then come ASUS engineers with their "more accurate" and they throw every possible software reading into the garbage bin and now no one knows what the true voltage reading is and what to set the board to because when I set 1.2V and get higher thermals than board set to 1.28V I can assure you it's not outputting anywhere near 1.20V to the CPU.

Is it 1989 that I have to measure the voltages with a DMM? Maybe I need to connect my oscilloscope and curve tracer too?

Just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean it's right. It is more accurate, no quotation marks required. You prefer that motherboard engineers tune the readings to an arbitrary value that looks good for them? The readings have become more and more erroneous because the output current has rapidly increased the past 1-2 years through the increased core count.
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post #3169 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 05:24 AM
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But that way I can start posting the best 9900K on the planet that does 5.2 @ 1.2V which isn't true because it needs 1.28-1.3V for that (non AVX) on all other boards.

How am I supposed to read out the voltages now without having a DMM hanging out of the case? Why do I see 0.15Vdroop? Take a look, this is 4.7GHz:

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post #3170 of 3201 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 05:34 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
It's showing 200W because your CPU VID is *HIGHER* than your cpu vcore. CPU package power is PURELY related to CPU VID * current. If you want the true power consumption, look in the VR sensor area, if possible, for current and power coming from the VRM's.
Hey @Falkentyne , can you elaborate on this bit about the CPU package power reading in HWinfo? Are you really saying it's just VID*current? So it would meaningless if we set a manual voltage? Any sources you can point out for such information?

I've noticed that when I test different overclocks/voltages, I can get similar power package values at load (say 180W with Prime95 small) in two cases yet I'll have noticeably different load temperatures after 5 minutes. It does make me think the package power is inaccurate, though I'm not sure it agrees with your explanation either.

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