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post #2691 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 01:18 PM
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Is it better to use LLC high and have a slightly higher idle and low workload voltage, as appose to LLC turbo with less idle and low workload voltage, and of course no vdroop. Less voltage spiking under load? 9900k, z390 ultra, F7f bios.

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post #2692 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 01:45 PM
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Hm so is there any way to raise the Vcore while in idle (which is about 0,7V here) on Aorus Master without touching the Vcore at load?

Cause im still plagued by idle crash/reboot, yesterday again after 2-3 weeks with none.
Kinda funny cause i have those idle crash like on a schedule every 16 days about, everytime im adjusting a bit in bios and wait if its stable but it continues to crash every 16 days.

Actually as long nothings gets damaged i dont care much about a crash reboot every 16 days, still would be way better without.
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post #2693 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 02:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by kati View Post
Hm so is there any way to raise the Vcore while in idle (which is about 0,7V here) on Aorus Master without touching the Vcore at load?

Cause im still plagued by idle crash/reboot, yesterday again after 2-3 weeks with none.
Kinda funny cause i have those idle crash like on a schedule every 16 days about, everytime im adjusting a bit in bios and wait if its stable but it continues to crash every 16 days.

Actually as long nothings gets damaged i dont care much about a crash reboot every 16 days, still would be way better without.
I would say lower loadlines with higher DVID.

I've played around with different settings and my system likes the following:

Vcore Loadline Low - DVID -0.030V
Vcore Loadline Med - DVID -0.055V
Vcore Loadline High - DVID -0.080V

All result in about the same load voltage of 1.314-1.324V

Running signature settings atm.
Resulting in:
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i9 9900K: Base Clock = 100.00Mhz | CPU Clock Ratio = 51 | AVX Offset = 0 | Uncore Ratio = 47 | Internal AC/DC Load Line = Power Saving | Vcore Loadline Calibration = Medium | Vcore = Normal | DVID = +0.050V | BCLK Adaptive Voltage = Disabled | SVID offset = Disabled | VCCIO = 1.230V | VCCSA = 1.220V | Intel Turbo Boost Technology = Auto | Intel Speed Shift Technology = Enabled | C-States = Enabled | CPU EIST Function = Enabled | TridentZ 4x8GB 3200 C16-18-18-38-560 @ 3600 C16-19-19-38-560
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post #2694 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 02:26 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by kati View Post
Hm so is there any way to raise the Vcore while in idle (which is about 0,7V here) on Aorus Master without touching the Vcore at load?

Cause im still plagued by idle crash/reboot, yesterday again after 2-3 weeks with none.
Kinda funny cause i have those idle crash like on a schedule every 16 days about, everytime im adjusting a bit in bios and wait if its stable but it continues to crash every 16 days.

Actually as long nothings gets damaged i dont care much about a crash reboot every 16 days, still would be way better without.
Not really possible. If you're using a negative offset, you're asking for this to happen if you also downclock at idle. This won't happen if you are not downclocking.
And negative offsets apply linearly through the entire voltage range.
You can try tweaking the AC loadline value and raising Loadline Calibration a little bit (don't go above medium LLC when using auto or offset voltages).
You can try stuff like lowering the IA AC loadline value and raising the offset higher (lowering the IA AC loadline value will lower the idle voltage and the low load voltages, however a lower AC loadline value has a smaller effect the lower the vcore is. Don't bother with the DC loadline value. I know it changes the 'Q point', but it doesn't seem to affect the VRM very much. The VRM *is* affected but I'm not sure in what way yet (the vcore VR VOUT value remains almost exactly the same; the higher the DC loadline value, the more watts and amps seem to be used, but I only saw a 6W / 4A difference on manual voltages when I tested IA AC/DC 1.6 mOhms and IA AC/DC 0.01 mOhms, but I'm getting off track.

So if you're using default AC/DC loadline (1.6 mOhms/1.6 mOhms) and a negative offset, try changing AC loadline to 0.4 mOhms and raising the offset higher until you get your previous stable voltage. Never go higher than 2.1 mOhms, EVER. (since I know someone is going to mess with these values in the wrong way).

Looks like @Intrud3r beat me to it.

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post #2695 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 03:05 PM
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But you have a much more technical explanation (and more experience) then me

i9 9900K: Base Clock = 100.00Mhz | CPU Clock Ratio = 51 | AVX Offset = 0 | Uncore Ratio = 47 | Internal AC/DC Load Line = Power Saving | Vcore Loadline Calibration = Medium | Vcore = Normal | DVID = +0.050V | BCLK Adaptive Voltage = Disabled | SVID offset = Disabled | VCCIO = 1.230V | VCCSA = 1.220V | Intel Turbo Boost Technology = Auto | Intel Speed Shift Technology = Enabled | C-States = Enabled | CPU EIST Function = Enabled | TridentZ 4x8GB 3200 C16-18-18-38-560 @ 3600 C16-19-19-38-560
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post #2696 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 03:51 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Intrud3r View Post
I would say lower loadlines with higher DVID.

I've played around with different settings and my system likes the following:

Resulting in:
Im already on the lowest possible...

but i could try @Falkentyne ´s hint with AC values, how would milli Ohms translate into that dezimal settings in IA AC?
Atm i got IA AC at 1 and IA DC at 0.

Thx alot!
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post #2697 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 04:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by kati View Post
Im already on the lowest possible...

but i could try @Falkentyne ´s hint with AC values, how would milli Ohms translate into that dezimal settings in IA AC?
Atm i got IA AC at 1 and IA DC at 0.

Thx alot!
No way to answer this question without a degree in EE or advanced calculus.
You have to dial the value and test.

Some random values which probably won't be helpful:
4.7 ghz core, 4.4 ghz cache:
AC/DC loadline= 0.01 mOhms: idle VID 1.135v.
AC/DC loadline=1.60 mOhms: idle VID: 1.320v
AC loadline=1.60 mohms, DC loadline=0.01 mOhms idle 1.488v

(DC loadline does not affect VRM attached vcore directly, at least it doesn't seem to; maybe a 3 amps/6w difference with MANUAL voltages; I still need to test max power draw on manual voltages, with AC=1.6, and DC 1.6 vs DC 0.01, and then compare if theres a difference with AC 0.01, DC 1.6 vs AC 1.6/DC 1.6):
VRM Vcore seems to be based purely on AC loadline value+CPU's default VID (based on core and cache ratio).

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post #2698 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 05:27 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
You have to dial the value and test.
Ok, thanks for this confusing answer, ill just test, look at my idle Vout, and wait weeks if it crashes again

Bit of a pity with my prob, its so rare it takes some time to see if idle runs without crash.
And my desktop is running 24/7, so it has alot of idle time and still i get it only every 2-3 weeks.
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post #2699 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 06:03 PM
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Whats the conscious on IA AC/DC now ? i am still running mine at IA AC 1 and IA DC 1 with a positive DVID and it seems ok or is there a better way ?

@Intrud3r what are you running them at with that setup?
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post #2700 of 2852 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 06:34 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Driller au View Post
Whats the conscious on IA AC/DC now ? i am still running mine at IA AC 1 and IA DC 1 with a positive DVID and it seems ok or is there a better way ?

@Intrud3r what are you running them at with that setup?
Whatever works for you is what is best to use.

The way AC loadline and thermal velocity boost and AVX instructions interact with the VID is too complicated to give an answer, unlike VRM loadline+manual voltages (which is based on vdroop in mOhms, and the only thing you have to worry about are transient spikes/transient dips from worse transient response, and voltage oscillation instability at higher LLC levels (less mOhms), which Elmor was investigating.

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