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post #4821 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 08:39 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by coolkwc View Post
Guys, i have really no idea how to use adaptive offset vcore for an overclocked 9900k

Ok, let say now my 9900k stable at manual Vcore 1.3V with Turbo LLC, what kind of adaptive offset and LLC i shall set?

At 1st i though my normal Vcore is 1.2V, so i just use +0.1V offset and hell my vcore in Bios shown 1.5V, it frighten me. Any wrong with my setting? or i shouldn't use adaptive vcore for OC CPU??
You need to learn how the AC Loadlines and base VID's work.
And the reason you had 1.5v is because you combined a high AC Loadline with an aggressive loadline calibration (VRM loadline). And *then* you threw on a +100mv offset on TOP of that. This can degrade the processor as well. AC Loadline is part of cpu internal power management and loadline calibration (VRM Loadline) is external power management (motherboard based).

Please take the time to read my other posts about that here and in the 9900k thread.

AC Loadline value that is used gets its values from CPU Internal AC/DC Loadline presets, unless AC Loadline in Internal VR Settings is set to a non auto (zero) value, then the VR setting takes higher priority and will overrule the presets.

Auto: Let motherboard decide based on multiplier.

Power saving: 0.4 mOhms AC, 1.3 mOhms DC (milliOhms)
Balanced: 1.0 mOhms AC, 1.3 mOhms DC
Turbo (max Intel spec 8 cores): 1.6 mOhms AC, 1.6 mOhms DC
Extreme (max Intel spec 6 cores): 2.1 mOhms AC, 2.1 mOhms DC.

Values in internal VR settings are 1/100 Ohm. 100=1.0 milliOhms, 1=0.01 milliOhms.

Basic rule: the higher the AC Loadline value, the LOWER the VRM Loadline (LLC) value should be (VRM Loadline calibration is also in milliOhms, even though the ODM's don't tell you this in the motherboard manuals; a higher level of Vcore loadline calibration=lower resistance (mOhms)=less vdroop. Lower levels=higher resistance=more vdroop. Intel doesn't factor in LLC into their specs, they design for spec vdroop loadline of 1.6 mOhms (8 cores), 2.1 mOhms vdroop loadline (4 and 6 core CFL chips).

If that didn't make sense:
Higher AC Loadline = use more vdroop (less aggressive loadline calibration or use Intel spec).
Lower AC Loadline = you can use less vdroop (more aggressive LLC).

1.6 mOhms ACLL is only safe with VRM Loadline at Standard or Normal (Intel spec vdroop of 1.6 mOhms).

HWinfo64 (extended CPU information section) will show the currently used AC and DC Loadline values.

I also wrote some stuff here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclockin...fs6/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comme...bjp/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/overclockin...o8l/?context=3

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Alt: MSI GT73VR Throttlebook with 7820HK @ 4.7 ghz, GTX 1070 MXM TDP mod to 230W, 32 GB RAM

Last edited by Falkentyne; 11-08-2019 at 08:56 AM.
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post #4822 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 10:51 AM
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Hi guys!

Ive notice some wierd issues related with my OC. Summing up, everything looks fine and goes just ok except when I play Battlefield V where I get reports of CPU L0 cache Errors and random crashes (screen freezes)

For those who don't remember I was having awfull problems trying to OC the RAM, swaped almost every component (MoBo, CPU, RAMs) and I finnaly found that the issue was the Der8auer OC-Frame for Direct Die Contact... with the new 9900K i tested firstly with its IHS soldered, It worked as spected runing only XMP, then I did the Delid and problems came back. Since then i'm runing lapped IHS with liquid metal.

This is my current system configuration:

Latest moded BIOS by Kedarwolf.
9900K 5.2GHz all cores, 4.8GHz caches @ 1.345v (it also pases R15 at 1.340v with no problem)
2x8GB GSkill 4000MHz CL17. Currently running :

https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305180&thumb=1

IMC setted manually to: VCCIO: 1.220v // VCCSA:1.200v
DDR voltage 1.420 // Voltage trainig: 1.41v (also tested with 1.45v / 1.44v)


- Some other readings from HWinfo:

Temp CPU: Max 79ºC, 36ºC average on idle
Temp RAM Max 37ºC, 29ºC average idle (active cooling, 2x85mm fans on top of the RAMs)
VR OUT: Max 1.336v, Min: 1.285v

- Some other BIOS settings:

LLC at Turbo
Switchin freq to 500KHz
All C-states: Disabled
All energy savings Disabled.
All power limits to Maximun.
Vtd and iGPU: Disabled

I passed many stress tests and none of them gave me a single error, even HCI-Memtest:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305192&thumb=1


I also tried XMP values setted manually and just XMP, lowered the caches to 46GHz, but the CPU L0 cache erros are still there:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305194&thumb=1


Any idea??
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I9 9900K 5.2GHz, Cache 4.7GHz @1.35v, Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master 1.0, Gigabyte 1080 TI Extreme, 2x8GB G.Skill 4000MHz CL17, Samsung 960 Pro 512 GB M.2 NMVe, Custom liquid cooling EK loop, PSU Corsair AX1000i, Thermaltake C71 view Case.
Al's Rig
(15 items)
CPU
I9 9900K Delided + Der8auer DDC mount
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master
GPU
Gigabyte 1080 Ti Extreme
RAM
G.Skill 4000MHZ CL17
Hard Drive
Samsung 960 Pro 512 GB M.2 NMVe
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda
Power Supply
Corsair AX1000
Cooling
EK Custom Loop w/ 2x420mm Rads + 240ml RGB res/pump combo. CPU & GPU block
Case
Corsair C71 View RGB
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
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post #4823 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 11:13 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by alv-OC View Post
Hi guys!

Ive notice some wierd issues related with my OC. Summing up, everything looks fine and goes just ok except when I play Battlefield V where I get reports of CPU L0 cache Errors and random crashes (screen freezes)

For those who don't remember I was having awfull problems trying to OC the RAM, swaped almost every component (MoBo, CPU, RAMs) and I finnaly found that the issue was the Der8auer OC-Frame for Direct Die Contact... with the new 9900K i tested firstly with its IHS soldered, It worked as spected runing only XMP, then I did the Delid and problems came back. Since then i'm runing lapped IHS with liquid metal.

This is my current system configuration:

Latest moded BIOS by Kedarwolf.
9900K 5.2GHz all cores, 4.8GHz caches @ 1.345v (it also pases R15 at 1.340v with no problem)
2x8GB GSkill 4000MHz CL17. Currently running :

https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305180&thumb=1

IMC setted manually to: VCCIO: 1.220v // VCCSA:1.200v
DDR voltage 1.420 // Voltage trainig: 1.41v (also tested with 1.45v / 1.44v)


- Some other readings from HWinfo:

Temp CPU: Max 79ºC, 36ºC average on idle
Temp RAM Max 37ºC, 29ºC average idle (active cooling, 2x85mm fans on top of the RAMs)
VR OUT: Max 1.336v, Min: 1.285v

- Some other BIOS settings:

LLC at Turbo
Switchin freq to 500KHz
All C-states: Disabled
All energy savings Disabled.
All power limits to Maximun.
Vtd and iGPU: Disabled

I passed many stress tests and none of them gave me a single error, even HCI-Memtest:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305192&thumb=1


I also tried XMP values setted manually and just XMP, lowered the caches to 46GHz, but the CPU L0 cache erros are still there:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305194&thumb=1


Any idea??
Raise VCCIO to 1.30v and see if the L0 errors go away first. Of course that will take some time to test.

[email protected] ghz, RX Vega 64, 32GB DDR4, Gigabyte Aorus Master, Seasonic Platinum 1000W, Corsair 760T
Alt: MSI GT73VR Throttlebook with 7820HK @ 4.7 ghz, GTX 1070 MXM TDP mod to 230W, 32 GB RAM
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post #4824 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 11:19 AM
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Hi @FalkE tyne! thanks for your answer

Is 1.300v safe for 24/7 usage? do I keep VCCSA at 1.200v?

the time needed to test it is "easy"... as the errors only show up when playing BF V I just need to play 20 min or so hehe


**Quick Edit**----------------------------------

I tried VCCIO 1.300v and it gave more and much faste L0 errors followed by a total system crash....

I9 9900K 5.2GHz, Cache 4.7GHz @1.35v, Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master 1.0, Gigabyte 1080 TI Extreme, 2x8GB G.Skill 4000MHz CL17, Samsung 960 Pro 512 GB M.2 NMVe, Custom liquid cooling EK loop, PSU Corsair AX1000i, Thermaltake C71 view Case.
Al's Rig
(15 items)
CPU
I9 9900K Delided + Der8auer DDC mount
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master
GPU
Gigabyte 1080 Ti Extreme
RAM
G.Skill 4000MHZ CL17
Hard Drive
Samsung 960 Pro 512 GB M.2 NMVe
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda
Power Supply
Corsair AX1000
Cooling
EK Custom Loop w/ 2x420mm Rads + 240ml RGB res/pump combo. CPU & GPU block
Case
Corsair C71 View RGB
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
Acer Predator Z35p UltraWide 21:9 3440x1440p
Keyboard
All rely Mechanical one hand Keyboard
Mouse
Logitech 502
Audio
Cooler Master MH752
Audio
Philips 5.1 65W
▲ hide details ▲

Last edited by alv-OC; 11-08-2019 at 11:32 AM.
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post #4825 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
You need to learn how the AC Loadlines and base VID's work.
And the reason you had 1.5v is because you combined a high AC Loadline with an aggressive loadline calibration (VRM loadline). And *then* you threw on a +100mv offset on TOP of that. This can degrade the processor as well. AC Loadline is part of cpu internal power management and loadline calibration (VRM Loadline) is external power management (motherboard based).

Please take the time to read my other posts about that here and in the 9900k thread.

AC Loadline value that is used gets its values from CPU Internal AC/DC Loadline presets, unless AC Loadline in Internal VR Settings is set to a non auto (zero) value, then the VR setting takes higher priority and will overrule the presets.

Auto: Let motherboard decide based on multiplier.

Power saving: 0.4 mOhms AC, 1.3 mOhms DC (milliOhms)
Balanced: 1.0 mOhms AC, 1.3 mOhms DC
Turbo (max Intel spec 8 cores): 1.6 mOhms AC, 1.6 mOhms DC
Extreme (max Intel spec 6 cores): 2.1 mOhms AC, 2.1 mOhms DC.

Values in internal VR settings are 1/100 Ohm. 100=1.0 milliOhms, 1=0.01 milliOhms.

Basic rule: the higher the AC Loadline value, the LOWER the VRM Loadline (LLC) value should be (VRM Loadline calibration is also in milliOhms, even though the ODM's don't tell you this in the motherboard manuals; a higher level of Vcore loadline calibration=lower resistance (mOhms)=less vdroop. Lower levels=higher resistance=more vdroop. Intel doesn't factor in LLC into their specs, they design for spec vdroop loadline of 1.6 mOhms (8 cores), 2.1 mOhms vdroop loadline (4 and 6 core CFL chips).

If that didn't make sense:
Higher AC Loadline = use more vdroop (less aggressive loadline calibration or use Intel spec).
Lower AC Loadline = you can use less vdroop (more aggressive LLC).

1.6 mOhms ACLL is only safe with VRM Loadline at Standard or Normal (Intel spec vdroop of 1.6 mOhms).

HWinfo64 (extended CPU information section) will show the currently used AC and DC Loadline values.

I also wrote some stuff here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclockin...fs6/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comme...bjp/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/overclockin...o8l/?context=3
Damn impressing knownledge, thanks.

Actually I'm using

https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305200&thumb=1
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305202&thumb=1
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305204&thumb=1
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305206&thumb=1
with the prime result
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305208&thumb=1
its better use this settings or change it to LLC Turbo manual voltage of 1.29V and rest on auto? trying to reduce POUT and IOUT?
or just my cooling isnt good enough ( Alphacool Eisbaer 360LT ) to cool that heat ?
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post #4826 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by alv-OC View Post
Hi @FalkE tyne! thanks for your answer

Is 1.300v safe for 24/7 usage? do I keep VCCSA at 1.200v?

the time needed to test it is "easy"... as the errors only show up when playing BF V I just need to play 20 min or so hehe


**Quick Edit**----------------------------------

I tried VCCIO 1.300v and it gave more and much faste L0 errors followed by a total system crash....
The L0 cache is a virtual register store that sits directly on the CPU cores, and is used by the hyperthreaded cores, so that physical and logical threads think they are all operating on physical cores and running real instructions.
L3 cache is used heavily for this. Unfortunately, the same voltage rail controls the L3 cache and the memory controller.
Then it becomes very difficult to determine if the memory controller doesn't like the higher voltage or if the L3 cache doesn't like it.

Did you also raise VCCSA to 1.30v (or 1.35v maximum) when you did this?

Also what happens if you reduce VCCIO 50mv below what you originally had it at?

If none of these options do anything then all you can do is increase vcore or turn off hyperthreading.

[email protected] ghz, RX Vega 64, 32GB DDR4, Gigabyte Aorus Master, Seasonic Platinum 1000W, Corsair 760T
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post #4827 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:45 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by QQryQ View Post
Damn impressing knownledge, thanks.

Actually I'm using

https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305200&thumb=1
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305202&thumb=1
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305204&thumb=1
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305206&thumb=1
with the prime result
https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...305208&thumb=1
its better use this settings or change it to LLC Turbo manual voltage of 1.29V and rest on auto? trying to reduce POUT and IOUT?
or just my cooling isnt good enough ( Alphacool Eisbaer 360LT ) to cool that heat ?
Prime 95? AVX enabled or AVX disabled?
I see some thermal throttling going on your clocks.
You also seem to have c-states enabled, which makes it impossible for me to see your "lowest" VR VOUT at maximum load, e.g., the VR VOUT in the "Minimum" column should match what "Current (OUT) shows in the "maximum" column, since highest current causes most vdroop. But instead I see a 0.70v VR VOUT. That makes things hard for me.

I'm going to assume it was between 1.195 to 1.20v VR VOUT in the 174 Amp current load. Either way that's going to be very hard to cool if you are not direct die.

When did you see a "1.5v Bios" voltage?
Your settings you showed in Bios show a +0mv DVID offset. Your HWinfo64 settings also don't point to any idle voltage being close to 1.5v.
But again, DVID mode on Gigabyte bios has bugs anyway. (Even if offset is 0).
If you switch from DVID mode to fixed vcore + loadline calibration, the "new" loadline calibration gets applied to the 'old' DVID mode without the fixed vcore working, until you reboot twice. (Either that, *OR* the DVID offset gets applied to your fixed vcore and LLC. Oof.)

[email protected] ghz, RX Vega 64, 32GB DDR4, Gigabyte Aorus Master, Seasonic Platinum 1000W, Corsair 760T
Alt: MSI GT73VR Throttlebook with 7820HK @ 4.7 ghz, GTX 1070 MXM TDP mod to 230W, 32 GB RAM
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post #4828 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 01:22 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
Prime 95? AVX enabled or AVX disabled?
I see some thermal throttling going on your clocks.
You also seem to have c-states enabled, which makes it impossible for me to see your "lowest" VR VOUT at maximum load, e.g., the VR VOUT in the "Minimum" column should match what "Current (OUT) shows in the "maximum" column, since highest current causes most vdroop. But instead I see a 0.70v VR VOUT. That makes things hard for me.

I'm going to assume it was between 1.195 to 1.20v VR VOUT in the 174 Amp current load. Either way that's going to be very hard to cool if you are not direct die.

When did you see a "1.5v Bios" voltage?
Your settings you showed in Bios show a +0mv DVID offset. Your HWinfo64 settings also don't point to any idle voltage being close to 1.5v.
But again, DVID mode on Gigabyte bios has bugs anyway. (Even if offset is 0).
If you switch from DVID mode to fixed vcore + loadline calibration, the "new" loadline calibration gets applied to the 'old' DVID mode without the fixed vcore working, until you reboot twice. (Either that, *OR* the DVID offset gets applied to your fixed vcore and LLC. Oof.)
Nah I just replied your post there was something about 1.5V not me ;-)

Wonder its better to use all auto and LLC Turbo with 1.295 or so or just leave it like its now, under AVX2 load I had 158AMPs and 195W so yes there was thermalthrottling assume I cant cool that like you said without direct die? ( btw. does that reduce temps like 20%? or less ? )
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post #4829 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 03:01 PM
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On Gigabyte boards with dual BIOS (BTW I have the Aorus Z390 Xtreme), correct me if I'm wrong, but at the default settings doesn't flashing the BIOS update both?

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post #4830 of 5157 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 03:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
On Gigabyte boards with dual BIOS (BTW I have the Aorus Z390 Xtreme), correct me if I'm wrong, but at the default settings doesn't flashing the BIOS update both?
On the Master, the only bios flashed is the "active" bios, and apparently, switching the bios switch from bios 1 to bios 2 (or vice versa) DOES NOT change the active bios until the system is POWERED OFF and restarted, which prevents a dead/corrupted BIOS from being flashed (which seems to be a serious design problem--those switches seem to only be checked at power on, rather than connected to a direct electrical SPDT circuit). Even a simple "start menu->restart" to reboot windows doesn't switch the active BIOS after switching the bios switch. (this is unlike the dual bios Radeon cards, where the switch electronically cuts off the bios and links the alternate one right away, allowing "hot flashing" a dead BIOS).

To flash the alternate BIOS (whichever one you are not using) on the Master, you need to switch the BIOS jumper switch to that BIOS, power off, then power on again, with the BIOS also set in "Single Bios mode" (a second switch).

Doesn't your Xtreme have USB Bios flashback, where you can flash a bios just by inserting a USB drive? I don't know if that works if the active BIOS is corrupted though.
I'm assuming 'hot switching' doesn't work on the Extreme either (no one has posted if it does or not--the number of people on this thread who have Aorus Xtremes can be counted on one hand. Yes, one hand).

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Alt: MSI GT73VR Throttlebook with 7820HK @ 4.7 ghz, GTX 1070 MXM TDP mod to 230W, 32 GB RAM

Last edited by Falkentyne; 11-08-2019 at 03:14 PM.
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