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Buying a new motherboard for an old CPU? (looking for advice)

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 11:13 PM
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go on ebay, type in "Z87 motherboard", (or "Z97 motherboard") and buy one that you like.


As far as getting a new motherboard that supports older CPUs, it doesnt work like that. Motherboards only work for 1-2 generations of CPUs.

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 11:28 PM
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Yes, the socket being that old plus the older type of RAM means that they wouldn't be usable for future upgrades. If you can find a deal similar to what I posted in my edit above (forgot to add the link - ASRock H87WSA-DL), then you could get that machine back in action quite affordably. That's what I would personally do in that situation. Any basic Socket 1150 board new with warranty that doesn't cost a ton.

You don't want to sink in a bunch of money on the motherboard, and then decided you need more RAM, and then sunk cost fallacy drives more purchases to try and bring the machine up to date, which it never will be. That's why I mentioned spending upwards of $200 to get the thing fixed would be an absolute deal breaker to me.

By carefully hunting down deals I spent about $365 on my Ryzen system with 16GB RAM back in July when DDR4 was more expensive (reusing PSU and drives). He could sell off the old CPU + RAM for maybe $150 or more. Add that money to $200+ that might be spent trying to update the old stuff, and buy a mid range Ryzen system. Much faster, current CPU socket, same money. Just some random selections:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7jPjxG

$350 for a mobo, 6 core CPU, and 16GB of RAM. Add in his new GPU and you have a solid mid range gaming rig. Assuming you could get $150 selling off the old CPU and RAM then it would be only $200 out of pocket. That's why it doesn't make any sense to me to spend more than $100 on the old system, because you can get so much more value buying new.

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 12:35 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Kleer Kut View Post
Yes, the socket being that old plus the older type of RAM means that they wouldn't be usable for future upgrades. If you can find a deal similar to what I posted in my edit above (forgot to add the link - ASRock H87WSA-DL), then you could get that machine back in action quite affordably. That's what I would personally do in that situation. Any basic Socket 1150 board new with warranty that doesn't cost a ton.

You don't want to sink in a bunch of money on the motherboard, and then decided you need more RAM, and then sunk cost fallacy drives more purchases to try and bring the machine up to date, which it never will be. That's why I mentioned spending upwards of $200 to get the thing fixed would be an absolute deal breaker to me.

By carefully hunting down deals I spent about $365 on my Ryzen system with 16GB RAM back in July when DDR4 was more expensive (reusing PSU and drives). He could sell off the old CPU + RAM for maybe $150 or more. Add that money to $200+ that might be spent trying to update the old stuff, and buy a mid range Ryzen system. Much faster, current CPU socket, same money. Just some random selections:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7jPjxG

$350 for a mobo, 6 core CPU, and 16GB of RAM. Add in his new GPU and you have a solid mid range gaming rig. Assuming you could get $150 selling off the old CPU and RAM then it would be only $200 out of pocket. That's why it doesn't make any sense to me to spend more than $100 on the old system, because you can get so much more value buying new.
Be aware that the ASRock H87WSA-DL is designed for server rack usage. If you were planning on using integrated graphics (not a separate graphics card), this motherboard only has VGA out, no HDMI, no Displayport, no DVI.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by jfriend00 View Post
I couldn't find a decent priced new motherboard for that processor. This is a challenge for consumer motherboards. Most manufacturers stop making them as soon as the volume for the processors they support drops which makes replacements hard to find. It's probably that "hard-to-find" issue that makes some used ones cost more than the mobo was when new. There are a lot of used Z97 motherboards on eBay, including some for under $80, but you'd be getting an unknown quantity.

I'm with Kleer Kut here. If there's no cheap way to get things up and running for a few years, then don't waste your money because you will never get that money back and you'll be running an old system with unknown reliability.

It may be much better to consider an inexpensive modern system that can maybe be upgraded in the future in a couple years when you're willing or able to spend more money.

For a non-overclocked motherboard, here's pretty much what you look for:

1. An ATX motherboard with the right CPU socket with your specific CPU on the supported list.
2. The right size to fit your case.
3. Brand you trust that has a decent BIOS and uses decent components in their build (Gigabyte, ASUS, ASRock and MSI all fit that bill). A non-branded mobo will have an unknown reputation for component selection.
4. The right ports you need (USB, SATA, etc...)
5. If you using integrated graphics, the mobo needs to have the right video connection for your monitor and support the appropriate screen resolution.
6. The right PCI slots (if any are needed)
7. The right number of DIMM slots for what you're planning on using and support for the speed memory you will be using.
Thanks for your input and suggestions. What I think I'm picking up from you and others—though doesn't seem to be explicitly stated—is that the 1150 is an older socket, so if he buys a new 1150 motherboard, that's going to mean when he's ready to upgrade to a newer CPU, he'd just need to get another motherboard with a newer socket anyway. Am I understanding that part correctly?

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by jfriend00 View Post
Correct. The 1150 socket is compatible with the Haswell and Broadwell processors which are the 4th and 5th generation of the Core i3/i5/i7 product line. The current Coffee Lake processors are the 9th generation and use the 1151v2 socket. So, the 1150 socket is 4 generations of the Core i3/i5/i7/i9 back.

While you can still buy processors from those older generations, those processors are significantly far behind the current generation of processors in performance per chip and as you see it's hard to buy motherboards for them.

Intel changes the physical layout of the socket (adds pins) or changes the tech requirements of the socket every so often which then requires a new motherboard to go with the latest processors. So, you can't just keep buying a new processor and plugging it into your existing motherboard. In addition, your Intel Core i7-4770 uses DDR3 memory which is not compatible with the current motherboards/processors (which use DDR4 memory). DDR4 memory uses lower voltages and can go faster than DDR3 memory. DDR5 memory will be coming in a few years too and will again go faster and use lower voltages (less power).
Thanks, this is really helpful info. I'm quite surprised that the newer motherboards don't have decent backwards compatibility with older RAM (I'm assuming the RAM socket even for DDR4 is still the same as it has been for at least a decade?).

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Kleer Kut View Post
Yes, the socket being that old plus the older type of RAM means that they wouldn't be usable for future upgrades. If you can find a deal similar to what I posted in my edit above (forgot to add the link - ASRock H87WSA-DL), then you could get that machine back in action quite affordably. That's what I would personally do in that situation. Any basic Socket 1150 board new with warranty that doesn't cost a ton.

You don't want to sink in a bunch of money on the motherboard, and then decided you need more RAM, and then sunk cost fallacy drives more purchases to try and bring the machine up to date, which it never will be. That's why I mentioned spending upwards of $200 to get the thing fixed would be an absolute deal breaker to me.

By carefully hunting down deals I spent about $365 on my Ryzen system with 16GB RAM back in July when DDR4 was more expensive (reusing PSU and drives). He could sell off the old CPU + RAM for maybe $150 or more. Add that money to $200+ that might be spent trying to update the old stuff, and buy a mid range Ryzen system. Much faster, current CPU socket, same money. Just some random selections:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7jPjxG

$350 for a mobo, 6 core CPU, and 16GB of RAM. Add in his new GPU and you have a solid mid range gaming rig. Assuming you could get $150 selling off the old CPU and RAM then it would be only $200 out of pocket. That's why it doesn't make any sense to me to spend more than $100 on the old system, because you can get so much more value buying new.
Got it, much appreciated for the advice and part suggestions!

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Benz145 View Post
Thanks, this is really helpful info. I'm quite surprised that the newer motherboards don't have decent backwards compatibility with older RAM (I'm assuming the RAM socket even for DDR4 is still the same as it has been for at least a decade?).
In order to move forward more efficiently, Intel/AMD want to design a memory controller for one type of DRAM only, not all past types of DRAM. The memory controller integrated into today's processors is not a simple beast and allowing it to go faster at lower power (which is what each new generation does) would not be easy if you burdened it with supporting prior types of DRAM. That's just the nature of moving forward in computers.

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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 04:43 PM
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Go on Ebay and buy a used 1150 motherboard from a highly rated seller for like $50-$75. No need Z series if you're not overclocking, they tend to cost a lot more. Avoid the OEM motherboards like Dells, Lenovos, etc.
A good feedback rating to me is at least 99.2%, others might say 99.6%. Check to make sure their feedback is recent and from selling computer parts.
Here's a search to get you started, assuming you are in the US:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_P...a=1&_dcat=1244

Quote: Originally Posted by jfriend00 View Post
In order to move forward more efficiently, Intel/AMD want to design a memory controller for one type of DRAM only, not all past types of DRAM. The memory controller integrated into today's processors is not a simple beast and allowing it to go faster at lower power (which is what each new generation does) would not be easy if you burdened it with supporting prior types of DRAM. That's just the nature of moving forward in computers.
Actually the CPUs can support both DDR3 and DDR4, with limitations like keeping voltage at 1.35v or below. There are some Skylake motherboards that support DDR3 (i am typing on one right now). Only thing is they're harder to find and you'll probably pay more for these boards than if you just sold your DDR3 and buy some DDR4 instead.



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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 06:02 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ltpdttcdft View Post
Actually the CPUs can support both DDR3 and DDR4, with limitations like keeping voltage at 1.35v or below. There are some Skylake motherboards that support DDR3 (i am typing on one right now). Only thing is they're harder to find and you'll probably pay more for these boards than if you just sold your DDR3 and buy some DDR4 instead.
I didn't know there were boards that could run DDR3 or DDR4. The other issue with running DDR3 in those cases, is DDR4 is available in a lot faster speeds so you'd be moving forward a generation with the CPU, but not with memory. Trying to save old, slow parts just never seems worth it to me. When I move up a generation and invest in the board and CPU of that generation, I want to move up to the full benefits of that generation.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 10:58 PM
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Well I'm thinking more in terms of expense, not investment. Not sure if the Ryzen 5 2600 is necessarily worth it.
Is the CPU bottlenecking the graphics card? If yes, go for upgrade. If no, not worth upgrading yet, wait for Zen 2 on 7nm.

Comparing the Ryzen 5 2600 Passmark scores with the i7-4770 it's 38% faster overall but 10% slower in single-thread. Well-threaded games will see a pretty decent boost but older games may take a slight hit.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php....40GHz&id=1907
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php...5+2600&id=3243

Considering multi-thread only it's spending $50 for 9780 points or $350 for 13544. You'd be spending >6X more for only 0.38X improvement.



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