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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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What does CPU Internal AC/DC Load Line really do?

Hello guys, I don't know if this is the right place to create this thread? If it isn't, please move it.

I have just updated my rig to a 9900K and a Gigabyte Z390 UD. After leaving everything on default and running a stress test with Aida64 I quickly found out that the temps were reaching 100 celsius stressed and high 50's on idle.
I have a Noctua air cooler D15 and even that cant cool it properly.
I have tried many things like setting the BCLK to 100.00 and keeping the voltage under control by 1.28v but it's unstable. The voltage I get with everything on default is 1.34v and it gets hot.

I have found a way to keep everything under control but need to know how it's doing that and if it will cause me problems down the line, that is the setting cpu internal ac/dc load line.
It keeps the CPU at 4.7GHz and the temps are 40c on idle and no more than 75c on load. Just by enabling that setting.

What I need to know is if it is stressing other parts of the system that I am not aware of or if it's something I can just leave on and be happy it works?

Really appreciate any help you can give me.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 04:57 AM
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Hi,
Never seen a setting worded like that
Load line calibration is this what you mean ?

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Hi,
Never seen a setting worded like that
Load line calibration is this what you mean ?
First of all, let me thank you for answering.

No, that setting is there as well but I have left it on auto. The setting am referring to is in the photos bellow.
It has a few options I can choose (Auto, Extreme, Turbo, Performance and Power Saving) but the one I selected is the Power saving option.

The CPU still reaches 130W on load and a maximum of 1.28v which is ideal for me as it keeps the temps under control.

The photo bellow is for the bios on the Z390 UD.

I also forgot to mention that I have disabled multicore enhancements.
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Last edited by demonknight9; 06-12-2019 at 05:32 AM.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 06:45 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by demonknight9 View Post
Hello guys, I don't know if this is the right place to create this thread? If it isn't, please move it.

I have just updated my rig to a 9900K and a Gigabyte Z390 UD. After leaving everything on default and running a stress test with Aida64 I quickly found out that the temps were reaching 100 celsius stressed and high 50's on idle.
I have a Noctua air cooler D15 and even that cant cool it properly.
I have tried many things like setting the BCLK to 100.00 and keeping the voltage under control by 1.28v but it's unstable. The voltage I get with everything on default is 1.34v and it gets hot.

I have found a way to keep everything under control but need to know how it's doing that and if it will cause me problems down the line, that is the setting cpu internal ac/dc load line.
It keeps the CPU at 4.7GHz and the temps are 40c on idle and no more than 75c on load. Just by enabling that setting.

What I need to know is if it is stressing other parts of the system that I am not aware of or if it's something I can just leave on and be happy it works?

Really appreciate any help you can give me.
CPU Internal Load line=presets for the AC/DC Loadline mOhm values. These can be read in HWINFO64 CPU section.
Manually setting AC/DC Loadline in VR settings (a non-zero value) overrides any of the presets set.
This option only affects Auto/Offset voltages (and SVID offset if SVID is applied to an Auto profile; applying SVID to a manual voltage profile is completely useless). I explained in the 9900k thread recently what these values do.

AC Loadline affects operating voltages on AUTO voltages (and dvid) ONLY. It does this by boosting the voltage target to the VRM (this is based on the CPUs original preprogrammed default VID at that cache and core ratio) by up to 1.520v at full load (the boost at idle is lower), then letting vdroop drop the voltage going to the CPU to a safe level. Therefore at 1.6 to 2.1 mOhms AC Loadline (values 160-210), Loadline Calibration MUST be kept at Standard or Normal to avoid excessively high voltages that can degrade your CPU!.

DC Loadline does not affect operating voltages, only power measurements and VID, but DC Loadline is best set to the same value as VRM loadline for accurate VID and CPU Package Power reporting when using Auto or SVID Offset (Set after Auto is applied) voltages. VRM loadline = CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration. Don't have the mOhm values in front of me at the moment.

CPU Loadline Calibration should be left at STANDARD if AC Loadline is set to 1.6 to 2.1 mOhms. If you reduce AC Loadline below 1.0 mOhms, then Loadline Calibration can be increased higher. Failure to do this will cause extremely high voltages. (This rule does not apply to manual fixed voltages. Fixed voltages bypass the AC and DC loadlines and give the VRM a custom voltage target which is the fixed voltage you asked for, before vdroop).

SVID Offset applies a gain boost to AC Loadline (increasing VID, VR VOUT and load voltages) for bad CPU samples. SVID Offset can be used to reduce idle voltage/VR VOUT when on auto voltages while keeping load voltages similar to the one you get with SVID disabled, on better CPU samples. To do this, set vcore to auto, LLC to Standard, AC Loadline between 0.95 (95) mOhms to 1.15 (115) mOhms, then enable SVID Offset. This is an undocumented tweak I found.

When you save this as a saved profile (or any auto voltage), the profile state is saved and recalled properly without any bugs (e.g. Auto vcore --->SVID Offset). Or override vcore + Turbo LLC->SVID Offset (worthless, please don't do svid offset to manual voltages, as SVID offset puts a gain on AC Loadline's VID at full load, but manual voltages ignore the AC Loadline settings).

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Last edited by Falkentyne; 06-12-2019 at 07:02 AM.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
CPU Internal Load line=presets for the AC/DC Loadline mOhm values. These can be read in HWINFO64 CPU section.
Manually setting AC/DC Loadline in VR settings (a non-zero value) overrides any of the presets set.
This option only affects Auto/Offset voltages (and SVID offset if SVID is applied to an Auto profile; applying SVID to a manual voltage profile is completely useless). I explained in the 9900k thread recently what these values do.
Thanks Falkentyne, I didn't touch any other settings apart from Multicore Enhancements to off, BCLK to 100.00 and CPU Internal AC/DC Load Line to Power Saving. I assume the VR settings are all on auto if that is default.

I don't want to overclock, far from it. The temps are just too high. I want 4.7GHz Ann all cores and for the CPU to scale down when not doing anything.

This is the only setting which works in the way I want it to. I checked aida64 and all the temps are well behaved, including the VRM's which sit at a comfortable 65c under load.
I get the same score in Cinebench R20 as if this setting was on auto. The only difference I can see is that the voltages have a celling of 1.28v and the temps dont go above 75c.

So what you are telling me is that this setting does to something as long as I leave the default values on AC/DC Loadline in VR settings?

Can you please link me to your 9900k thread?

Thanks again for replying. I am trying to understand what the setting does and if there are any side effects by leaving it like this?

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 09:22 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by demonknight9 View Post
Thanks Falkentyne, I didn't touch any other settings apart from Multicore Enhancements to off, BCLK to 100.00 and CPU Internal AC/DC Load Line to Power Saving. I assume the VR settings are all on auto if that is default.

I don't want to overclock, far from it. The temps are just too high. I want 4.7GHz Ann all cores and for the CPU to scale down when not doing anything.

This is the only setting which works in the way I want it to. I checked aida64 and all the temps are well behaved, including the VRM's which sit at a comfortable 65c under load.
I get the same score in Cinebench R20 as if this setting was on auto. The only difference I can see is that the voltages have a celling of 1.28v and the temps dont go above 75c.

So what you are telling me is that this setting does to something as long as I leave the default values on AC/DC Loadline in VR settings?

Can you please link me to your 9900k thread?

Thanks again for replying. I am trying to understand what the setting does and if there are any side effects by leaving it like this?
You really want my post?
Trust me your brain is going to turn to complete spaghetti after reading it. These things happen when you give Chess masters a computer to overclock.
(Only thing I left out is SVID Offset, which applies a boost to AC Loadline's mOhm boost at load while not affecting it at idle, which is for really poor CPU samples. I do not know if it can raise VID higher than 1.520v however).

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-in...l#post27998984

Now that I'm on my desktop I have the mOhm values.

CPU Internal AC/DC loadline (AC / DC raw values-> mOhms)

Extreme: 210/210 (2.1 mOhms / 2.1 mOhms)
Turbo: 160/160 (1.6 mOhms)
Performance: 130/130 (1.3 mOhms)
Power Saving: 40/130 (0.4 mohms/1.3 mOhms)
Auto: 1.0/1.3 mOhms (4.7 ghz), 1.3/1.3 mOhms (5 ghz).

Note that DC loadline 1.3 mOhms affects VID the same as Loadline Calibration=Low affects VR VOUT/VCC_Sense (Standard/Normal/Auto=1.6 mOhms). Not sure why Gigabyte even bothers changing the DC Loadline value anyway.

CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration (8 cores)--also known as VRM Loadline

Standard/Auto/Normal: 1.6 mOhms
Low: 1.3 mOhms
Medium: 1.0 mOHms
High: 0.8 mOhms
Turbo: 0.4 mOhms
Extreme: 0.2 mOhms (estimated)
Ultra Extreme: 0 mOhms

*Edit*
SVID Offset allows the AC loadline to boost the VRM Supply voltage / Supply VID (before DC loadline droop bias) ABOVE 1.52v, up to 200mv higher.
With SVID offset disabled, AC Loadline can not boost CPU supply voltage via VID higher than 1.52v.

SVID offset enabled, AC Loadline =1.6 mOhms, DC Loadline=0.01 mOhms (This stops VID from dropping below AC Loadline VID target)
Hint: If i tried small FFT AVX with this setting, VR VOUT would be 1.32v, Amps would be 212 (!!) amps, Watts would be 260+ and temps would be 105C in two seconds flat.
I calculated that to a target VRM voltage of 1.665v before vdroop!
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Last edited by Falkentyne; 06-12-2019 at 09:48 AM.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
You really want my post?
Trust me your brain is going to turn to complete spaghetti after reading it. These things happen when you give Chess masters a computer to overclock.
(Only thing I left out is SVID Offset, which applies a boost to AC Loadline's mOhm boost at load while not affecting it at idle, which is for really poor CPU samples. I do not know if it can raise VID higher than 1.520v however).

https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-in...l#post27998984

Now that I'm on my desktop I have the mOhm values.

CPU Internal AC/DC loadline (AC / DC raw values-> mOhms)

Extreme: 210/210 (2.1 mOhms / 2.1 mOhms)
Turbo: 160/160 (1.6 mOhms)
Performance: 130/130 (1.3 mOhms)
Power Saving: 40/130 (0.4 mohms/1.3 mOhms)
Auto: 1.0/1.3 mOhms (4.7 ghz), 1.3/1.3 mOhms (5 ghz).

Note that DC loadline 1.3 mOhms affects VID the same as Loadline Calibration=Low affects VR VOUT/VCC_Sense (Standard/Normal/Auto=1.6 mOhms). Not sure why Gigabyte even bothers changing the DC Loadline value anyway.

CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration (8 cores)--also known as VRM Loadline

Standard/Auto/Normal: 1.6 mOhms
Low: 1.3 mOhms
Medium: 1.0 mOHms
High: 0.8 mOhms
Turbo: 0.4 mOhms
Extreme: 0.2 mOhms (estimated)
Ultra Extreme: 0 mOhms

*Edit*
SVID Offset allows the AC loadline to boost the VRM Supply voltage / Supply VID (before DC loadline droop bias) ABOVE 1.52v, up to 200mv higher.
With SVID offset disabled, AC Loadline can not boost CPU supply voltage via VID higher than 1.52v.

SVID offset enabled, AC Loadline =1.6 mOhms, DC Loadline=0.01 mOhms (This stops VID from dropping below AC Loadline VID target)
Hint: If i tried small FFT AVX with this setting, VR VOUT would be 1.32v, Amps would be 212 (!!) amps, Watts would be 260+ and temps would be 105C in two seconds flat.
I calculated that to a target VRM voltage of 1.665v before vdroop!
Oh bloody hell that is complex! Ok, I hear you. It is super complicated for me. I sort of understand parts of it but other bits are just beyond me.
So, do you think I should leave it like I have now or is it risky? I mean the machine works fine with everything default, it's just the temps that are out of control.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by demonknight9 View Post
Oh bloody hell that is complex! Ok, I hear you. It is super complicated for me. I sort of understand parts of it but other bits are just beyond me.
So, do you think I should leave it like I have now or is it risky? I mean the machine works fine with everything default, it's just the temps that are out of control.
Respectable temps and low VR VOUT what matters. I can't tell you what config to use on your hardware.
Try to avoid a load VR VOUT higher than 1.3v and configure as you need.
Also on manual voltage, dont exceed Turbo LLC.

On Auto voltage, turbo LLC is *VERY BAD* unless the AC loadline value is reduced.
"Power saving" works well on Low or Medium Loadline Calibration.

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Last edited by Falkentyne; 06-12-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
Respectable temps and low VR VOUT what matters. I can't tell you what config to use on your hardware.
Try to avoid a load VR VOUT higher than 1.3v and configure as you need.
Also on manual voltage, dont exceed Turbo LLC.

On Auto voltage, turbo LLC is *VERY BAD* unless the AC loadline value is reduced.
"Power saving" works well on Low or Medium Loadline Calibration.
Ok, i just checked it and it looks like VR VOUT has a ceiling of 1.260. I took a screenshot of hwinfo. See anything funny here?

I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me out. I am just worried i am doing something that seems fine now but in the long run it will slowly damage the system. This is a very expensive upgrade.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by demonknight9 View Post
Ok, i just checked it and it looks like VR VOUT has a ceiling of 1.260. I took a screenshot of hwinfo. See anything funny here?

I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me out. I am just worried i am doing something that seems fine now but in the long run it will slowly damage the system. This is a very expensive upgrade.
1.260v has a safe amps limit (Current IOUT) of about 160 amps. You're easily good to go here.

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