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post #21 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

and then i have to mess with it every month to keep it maintained? nevermind the initial hassle of building a custom loop.
my 980 ti 1500mhz tops out @ 52C, do i need better cooling? absolutely not.
my 6600k 4.6ghz tops out @ 67C, do i need better cooling? absolutely not.

so, why do i need to waste my time building a custom loop then? absolutely nothing.

every month? I haven't touched my loop in six months. Custom loops are low maintenance if you use just distilled water. My delta's are also better than yours.

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post #22 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

and then i have to mess with it every month to keep it maintained? nevermind the initial hassle of building a custom loop.
my 980 ti 1500mhz tops out @ 52C, do i need better cooling? absolutely not.
my 6600k 4.6ghz tops out @ 67C, do i need better cooling? absolutely not.

so, why do i need to waste my time building a custom loop then? absolutely nothing.

You need to "mess" with much less often then you need to mess with a CLC. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
strictly speaking you only need to mess with a properly built loop when it evaporates enough liquid to empty its reservoir, which with a large reservoir could be several years. Meanwhile, you CLC also evaporates liquid, and runs dry much quicker because it does not have a res at all! Making things worse, your CLC runs with mixed metals, which given a few years, will corrode to the point of either leaking or performing so badly that you won't want the darned thing any more. CLCs are literally just small, poorly built loops that can't be opened. They aren't somehow immune to the problems of custom built loops, and unlike custom built loops, you can't take any steps to correct their issues.
Problem is you can't mess with the CLC, so when its time comes, you just have to toss the whole thing instead of spending 30 seconds refilling it. Many liquid cooling enthusiasts like to mess with their loops more frequently, but they in no way actually require more frequent maintenance than CLCs.

The hassle of building a custom loop? Laughable at best. If you can build a custom computer, you can just as easily build a custom loop. If you didn't build your own computer, then why do you care how much effort it took some other guy to build the loop? Besides, these days you can get AIO kits using all proper parts, that are customizable but don't actually require any assembly if you just want to use it as is.

Do you need better cooling? Of course not, but why would you choose to pay more for inferior cooling? Why would you pay more for a louder system? Why pay more for ugliness? Why pay more for something that won't last nearly as long? Nonsense.

Why should you build/buy a proper loop? Because you're already shelling out enough money for the superior product, so you might as well get that superior product. Otherwise you might as well just mail me that system of yours and I'll send you a nice raspberry Pi instead. It would be more than you need, and you don't care about throwing away money anyway, right?

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post #23 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

Why is this thread even needed?
One of my pet peeves in recent years has been the rise of Close Loop Coolers. They have been misleadingly advertised as easy to set up, yet providing performance like water cooling, which most enthusiasts associate as being superior to air cooling.

Custom loops can indeed, when built well, be quite a bit better than air cooling. However, the majority of AIOs, as I will discuss below, are not really an upgrade to air cooling at all. In particular,

I got this inspiration from Shilka, who has done a good job of writing "why you should not buy" certain models of power supplies known to be terrible. I feel like someone needed to write a thread like this.

I'll respond in this way: Do you want a hulking monstrosity where your CPU cooler should be located? Do you want to do any sort of overclocking? If the answer is no and yes, a CLC may be for you.

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post #24 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:09 PM
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I know the nepton 280L I had was great.
I upgraded to a custom loop and temps were worse than the netpon 280L. Untill I lasped the cpu block.

I was able to push allot of volts compared to an air cooler. 1.46V vs 1.644V on amd fx8350
TPC812 vs nepton 280l

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post #25 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:16 PM
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So why exactly are all the CLC users getting hurt over this? There are drawbacks to both air cooling and closed loop water cooling, I thought that was covered pretty well in the original post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

why you should not buy a big bulky heatsink:

8. it might come in contact with the gpu pcb and short it, as seen on this pic
Back-plates are your friend.

Also I don't think I've ever seen a case where someone damaged their motherboard with a large air cooler. Screw the motherboard down well, and screw the cooler mounting down well and nothing bad will happen. I've had to practically rip power supply cables out of motherboards because they were stuck, with zero damage to the motherboards. Let alone damage from the properly spread out pressure of a cooler.

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post #26 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:17 PM
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Great write up. + Rep Good Sir thumb.gif

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post #27 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp33d Junki3 View Post

Sorry to say, no one has chip on shoulder. Just experience cooling.
You added a 2nd 140mm front fan and no top exhaust.
Did you remove both HDD cage from the R5?
As that will block most of the intake.

So you say your GPU temps are lower with the H100i in front 2x120mm, instead of just 2x 140mm fans?
Those numbers do not add up.

You can even put the H100 on top, as you have more than enough clearance. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
1. Not always and not true
2. Not all, but some are designed to not block ram
3. That is personal taste if you got LED
4. Never heard that it will do that nor seen it happen.
5. Not hard to do to remove it, and many do move it always.
6. You can with some coolers and cases and you can directly exhaust
7. Not all, there is some good looking coolers.

I didn't add a top exhaust when using the D15. I did end up opening up one of the top vents to let the air out.

I removed the middle hdd cage. I kept the bottom one since I need it for my hdd's. Right now I had to rig it in there since it doesn't secure 100% with the H100i as a front intake. Zip-ties ftw.

Everything is lower since I'm able to set up 3 exhaust fans easily.

The H100i's fans are a lot quieter as front intakes. Least the front of the case muffles the sound compared to setting it up as a top exhaust. When I was still in my Air 540 I had the H100i setup as a top exhaust.
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post #28 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:18 PM
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First off I'd like to say this thread is apples and oranges. People need different options for different applications. I've used both air coolers and AIOs along with a full out custom loop for my main rig so yes I've got the experience behind my statements. I currently have a dual xeon 2670 running my server with both an air cooler and an Enermax AIO on the cpu's and temp difference is minimal. During the summers in Texas I hit ambient of 80F (in my bedroom 120f max outside) easily and my AIO stays cooler than the Enermax air cooler but at idle they are the same. Under stress if I kick up the fans then both hold steady but the AIO can pull ahead because of the beefy radiator. I paid $55 for the AIO and $75 for the air cooler so technically I'd say its a wash. Air cooler is big and puts weight on the motherboard while the AIO puts weight on the case and the pump is very light and easy to work around. Installation time of either is minimal and straight forward.

Overall I'd say use what ya got and get what ya like. Both get the goal of a simple to use cooler for a cpu and both have their pros and cons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

For the amount you spent on those 3 derpy CLCs, you could have built a custom loop that would look better, perform better, last longer, etc.

"Perfection" is probably the last thing I'd call those ugly tubes running haphazardly across your GPUs, or the woefully inefficient cooling and noise levels you are getting from that setup.

I'm not against CLCs, but I do understand that their practical application is much more niche than people seem to think. I've used CLCs in systems where small size, some flexibility in mounting, and lack of required maintenance were the most important factors, and under those conditions they do well. In just about any other scenario however, they are a very poor choice.

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. I personally like the clean look of the motherboard but others don't mind seeing a big heatsink. To each their own.

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post #29 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by glinux View Post

First off I'd like to say this thread is apples and oranges. People need different options for different applications. I've used both air coolers and AIOs along with a full out custom loop for my main rig so yes I've got the experience behind my statements. I currently have a dual xeon 2670 running my server with both an air cooler and an Enermax AIO on the cpu's and temp difference is minimal. During the summers in Texas I hit ambient of 80F easily and my AIO stays cooler than the Enermax air cooler but at idle they are the same. Under stress if I kick up the fans then both hold steady but the AIO can pull ahead because of the beefy radiator. I paid $55 for the AIO and $75 for the air cooler so technically I'd say its a wash. Air cooler is big and puts weight on the motherboard while the AIO puts weight on the case and the pump is very light and easy to work around. Installation time of either is minimal and straight forward.

Overall I'd say use what ya got and get what ya like. Both get the goal of a simple to use cooler for a cpu and both have their pros and cons.
Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. I personally like the clean look of the motherboard but others don't mind seeing a big heatsink. To each their own.

Problem is you are assuming only air coolers and CLCs exist. There are other forms of cooling as well, including (but not limited to) custom built liquid loops, and customizable pre built liquid kits. Both of these options provide that clean look you like, in fact an even cleaner one as you can properly route the tubes, etc, and have a large number of other benefits as well.

The only real downside compared to a CLC is the cost, and even that is basically null when you consider how much better the proper loops perform and the fact that they will outlive several CLCs.

Heck, you don't even have to go that far, as you can actually build a full custom version of a typical CLC for ~$65 - only a few bucks more than the very cheapest CLC on the market, and much less than the more expensive decent quality CLCs. Sure, I wouldn't want to use that cheap of a custom liquid loop, but that just goes to show how bad CLCs are, considering this loop would trump an actual CLC in every way.

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post #30 of 592 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

You need to "mess" with much less often then you need to mess with a CLC. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
strictly speaking you only need to mess with a properly built loop when it evaporates enough liquid to empty its reservoir, which with a large reservoir could be several years. Meanwhile, you CLC also evaporates liquid, and runs dry much quicker because it does not have a res at all! Making things worse, your CLC runs with mixed metals, which given a few years, will corrode to the point of either leaking or performing so badly that you won't want the darned thing any more. CLCs are literally just small, poorly built loops that can't be opened. They aren't somehow immune to the problems of custom built loops, and unlike custom built loops, you can't take any steps to correct their issues.
Problem is you can't mess with the CLC, so when its time comes, you just have to toss the whole thing instead of spending 30 seconds refilling it. Many liquid cooling enthusiasts like to mess with their loops more frequently, but they in no way actually require more frequent maintenance than CLCs.

The hassle of building a custom loop? Laughable at best. If you can build a custom computer, you can just as easily build a custom loop. If you didn't build your own computer, then why do you care how much effort it took some other guy to build the loop? Besides, these days you can get AIO kits using all proper parts, that are customizable but don't actually require any assembly if you just want to use it as is.

Do you need better cooling? Of course not, but why would you choose to pay more for inferior cooling? Why would you pay more for a louder system? Why pay more for ugliness? Why pay more for something that won't last nearly as long? Nonsense.

Why should you build/buy a proper loop? Because you're already shelling out enough money for the superior product, so you might as well get that superior product. Otherwise you might as well just mail me that system of yours and I'll send you a nice raspberry Pi instead. It would be more than you need, and you don't care about throwing away money anyway, right?

Pay more for inferior cooling? Ok lets make calculations here.

H115i = 139
2x hybrid cooler = 149
total = 288
ease of installation = very easy



Custom loop:
H240 x2 = 169
240mm radiator = 49
2x 980 ti waterblock = 278
Reservoir, fittings, tubes, etc =49
total = 550
ease of install = hard

So much for paying more for less huh?



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