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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 05:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by vvv850 View Post
It's not the fan header or electrical capability of the controller itself, but the current monitoring chip (mine errors out while the Vardars "boot up" even on channels that do not have load, only pump PWM signal). I've confirmed this with Aqua Computer support and they've seen issues with Vardars that behave this way.

From an EE perspective I do not see why having an UPS (unless its a Double Conversion Online type - which aren't for home use) has anything to do with this topic. A typical Line Interactive UPS has 1-2 steps buck-boost and doesn't do much when power fluctuates (it also goes through 0V and relies on the PSU to hold up power until it switches to battery). I think you are stuck on electrical problems generated by me disconnecting and reconnecting the fans

The reason I opened this topic was to know if the EVOs behave the same way in case I decide to replace my fans.
I ask about UPS out of surge protection. I run a power strip with integrated surge protection but have run an UPS in the past and will use one in the future. With integrated surge protection of course.

~Ceadder

I am really starting to feel my Oats as a long time member of OCN. Why did we go back to this system again?

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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 09:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by vvv850 View Post
To me, it's not even that (noise related), but after two years of having this setup, my AQ6 current sensor is basically worn out. It cannot sustain 6 fans on the header while they spin up to full speed because of high current.

I'm the beginning it was fine with 10 per channel, then after a while with 8 and then with 6. Now 5. After the spin up boost, 6 fans only pull 1.4 A at full speed.


What do you mean by worn out? I have 6 Vadars per channel myself so now I’m concerned this will happen to mine.
If this is a know issue with these or other fans there really should of been s warning or something on AQ’s part.

So how is this issue going to affect my AQ over time? What other fans have this issue and what fans should I now be looking at to avoid this issue?

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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
I ask about UPS out of surge protection. I run a power strip with integrated surge protection but have run an UPS in the past and will use one in the future. With integrated surge protection of course.

~Ceadder
The surge protection on UPSs (again, not Double Conversion but Line Interactive) is slightly better than that of a power strip (at least that is what my testing showed), but the reaction time and overvoltage trip value is high enough that your PC will have to manage on it's own for some milliseconds. (usually over 10ms) I'm not going into detail as this is bound to spark some OT dispute. Either way, my system is on an APC Smart UPS 1500 (which is overkill for home use).

Quote: Originally Posted by Shawnb99 View Post
What do you mean by worn out? I have 6 Vadars per channel myself so now I’m concerned this will happen to mine.
If this is a know issue with these or other fans there really should of been s warning or something on AQ’s part.

So how is this issue going to affect my AQ over time? What other fans have this issue and what fans should I now be looking at to avoid this issue?

I cannot say for certain that this will affect you or not. The reason this happened to me, as stated above, is because the fans pull a lot of current during startup (especially at full power startup). I think it's difficult for AC to issue a warning as there are multiple flavors of fans out there.

The least I can do is post the response from Aqua Computer Support:

Quote:
I started having problems with the Aquaero 6 Pro and the fan outputs about a week ago.

On boot they randomly error out with overcurrent error. I have to try a few times to be able to have all my fans spinning.

The fan outputs control the following:
1 - 4 x EK Vardar 120ER
2 - 6 x EK Vardar 120ER
3 - PWM pumps (only PWM signal, no current)
4 - 6 x EK Vardar 120ER

fans.png


IMO, there's no reason that 6 fans would trip the OC protection but what concerns me most is that even output 3 (which has no load) error-ed out.

No start boost active.
Response:

Quote:
you are not the first customer who reports about strange problems when the aquaero is used with EK Vardar fans.

It might be possible that the starting current of these fans is too high. You can easily check this by lowering the number of fans per channel.

That one fan channel still brings up the problem even though nothing is connected to it, is very likely a problem with the hardware. Unfortunately it is quite likely that a monitoring chip has been damaged. This is nothing that you can fix yourself. You would have to send in the device for a check and repair. I also have to add that it is unlikely that this kind of damage will be covered by the warranty. In the end it will depend on our analysis of the error.
I haven't sent the unit in for testing, but instead bought a Quadro controller and moved the fans to it. It works for now, but who knows for how long

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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 12:56 AM
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Thanks for the info. I’ll be disconnecting my Vadars from the AQ and hooking them up to a Quadro instead. Sad to see this issue isn’t covered under warranty but if it’s a known issue with this type of fan some kind of warning would of been nice.

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 10:32 AM
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I have 30 EK Vardar F3-140ER fans and two EK F4-120ER fans in my build and they all operate as described, starting full speed then slowing down.

I did some fan testing with these fans and an Aquaero, and the most fans I could get to run off one channel was six without tripping the over current protection.

Since I wanted to run up to eight fans per channel, I used four Splitty9s. Then I made a custom harness to run power and ground from my power supply to two Splitty9s per harness and then ran each PWM and RPM wires from the Splitty9s to the Aquaero.

This way there is virtually no power load on the Aquaero, yet I still have full control with the Aquaero.

In the picture here the red and black sleeved wires supply power to the four Splitty9s, and the grey sleeving has both the PWM and RPM wires both going to each of four channels on the Aquaero.
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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 10:55 AM
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I think one of my Vadars died on me, it makes an attempt to spin up then dies. I’m unsure if I should replace it after seeing this thread and if I’d be better off getting all new fans.

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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I did your mod a while back and ran all fans power from the PSU, but then reverted back as there was too much clutter and no time to do cable management 🙂

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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 11:22 AM
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Cable management is the hardest part of any build.

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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 09:44 PM
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Which Aquaro 6 do you own?

I looked up the only one PPCs sells(Aquaro 6XT... or XLT?) and it's supposedly rated for 30 wpc. I did the math for the Watts per ER 120 and that was 2.16w. No way you're hitting 30w per channel with 10 per channel. Or the configuration you contacted Customer Support with. Not even with an EK fan as they are rated at .18A maximum draw. Ten ER 120s are 21.6w. You should easily be able to fit ten of them on one channel. I'd be extremely surprised if the max capability of any 30wpc controller could only run 30w across the PCB. Especially one that is as well known as the Aquaro. Shoot a Sunbeam Rheosmart 6 can run 30wpc.

I call BS on the support tech that suggests that it's a flaw with EK fans. Maybe that is what the fellow learned, but I believe he's not being honest with you in order to avoid a warranty exchange. It shouldn't matter what fan you put on the device, only its rated Amperage and that you didn't overload the channel with excessive wattage.

And of course if you removed fans against the recommendation of their company. I believe one should ALWAYS shut down their system when installing or removing anything that uses power. I know you don't believe it matters, but what's it hurt if you power the system down and degauss the power from it before doing so? At the very least, you know you won't muff anything by doing so and you won't have any niggling feelings making the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

But 16 total fans across 3 out of 4 channels shouldn't have caused your Aquaro to come up lame. Four .18A rated fans is 8.6w. Six are 12.96w and the same 12.96w for the other channel. No way your D5 is throwing enough current through the 4th channel to overload the spectrum. My D5 isn't handy atm, but I believe that it uses ~10w as an educated rough estimate.

So...

8.6w +
13w +
13w +
10w =

44.6w total.

Using your words here, you had ten fans on one channel.

No matter how you slice it, that controller should eaasily be able to absorb 44.6w without an issue. Apparently you likely caught a bad one and didn't realize it until it was too late.

Of course this could all be moot if you have a different Aquaro than the one I looked up and the WPC was less than 20wpc. Cause that's the only way I see that type of degradation occurring over that period of time.

~Ceadder

I am really starting to feel my Oats as a long time member of OCN. Why did we go back to this system again?

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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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You have a way of not reading what was already written. Don't know if it's lack of respect for other posters or just ignorance. Anyway, you are really starting to get on my nerves by insinuating foul play on my side. I told you that I understand your opinion regarding hot swapping fans, but professional experience and practical experience are on my side. Not gonna continue on this subject further.

Back on topic.

First and foremost, I've told you that I MEASURED the current draw of six Vardars ER on SPINUP. Measuring for me means breaking out the calibrated Fluke and logging the readings. What I found was the 6 Vardars pull 3.1-3.5A for around 1 second.

Second, your math is based on max power draw while they are already spinning. A motor tends to multiply the nominal current while starting up.

Lastly, as the title of this topic says, I am talking about startup problems of the fans.

What really gets me about your post is that you seem confident about what you are saying without even reading what others have said. To give you an example:

Quote:
No way your D5 is throwing enough current through the 4th channel to overload the spectrum. My D5 isn't handy atm, but I believe that it uses ~10w as an educated rough estimate.
The D5 G2, at least, has a nominal power draw of 23W. Please observe the term NOMINAL. While a pump starts up it can draw 2-7x the nominal current. AAAnnnnnnddddd, I told you that my pump is not drawing power from the AQ only PWM signal. Pumps now don't even come with fan connectors for power.

Oh, not to forget, I have an AQ6 Pro.

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