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When are the new Ryzen 3000 cpu water block designs coming out?

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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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When are the new Ryzen 3000 cpu water block designs coming out?

I was wondering what vendors were working on a new Ryzen 3000 cpu water block design? With the asymmetric location of the I/O dies and the CCD's, the old AM4 Ryzen Gen 1 and Gen+ designs will not cover all of the dies with the old fin stack array sizes.

This is similar to the situation that happened with TR4, where the old fin stack array sizes were not large enough to cover the two CCD complexes in the Threadripper cpus.

Right now you can only count on the IHS to attempt to spread the heat from the CCD's and the I/O die to the part of the IHS that is under the jet plate and fin stack array.

I would imagine that the fin stack arrays needs to be made much larger to cover the areas directly above each CCD and the I/O die for optimal cooling.

Anyone hear of any of the usual custom water cooling vendors working on a new design?

I am going to attempt to cool down my 3900X with a Aquacomputer Cuplex Kryos Next PVD/Silver block that I have in the hope that the silver coldplate will conduct the heat from the asymmetric dies to the center of the plate under the fin stack array. I would think it has to have a better chance than the Asetek AIO coldplate I'm currently running. I just don't like to be at a constant 80°C. on the cpu.

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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 10:01 PM
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I don't know about availability but there might not be much motivation for a revamp for some vendors depending on the waterblock orientation and fin density.



Cuplex Kryos Next has fins covering 28.2 x 31.4 mm or 25x28mm per xtremerigs. (source: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...erblock/3.html , https://www.xtremerigs.net/2016/12/2...lock-review/3/)

The IHS on Ryzen is ~37x37mm.

For comparison:

Looking at this:
Click image for larger version

Name:	cpu33.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	1.01 MB
ID:	283444
The IO die at the left of the image is more or less on center and is 13x9mm roughly
Each CPU die is ~11x8mm

(source https://www.anandtech.com/show/13829...e-4-eight-core)


Also see the IR imaging of the Ryzen chiplets
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/48258310682


I'd say at least 12mm is needed from the centerline to cover the CPU cores (i.e. 24mm+ cooling engine dimension).

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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 01:22 AM
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I wonder how much benefit you'll get from an optimised block. The heat spreads over the IHS first and the over the coldplate of the CPU block.
I think the gains will be pretty small. Maybe 2-3°C at best if they even get there.
The jet plates in the current gen blocks spread the water over the centerline of the coldplate and then it flows outwards over the rest of the coldplate, so center area in the block gets cold water all the time and it flows pretty fast and turbulent which is why I think it's hard to make it even better.

But I hope I'm wrong for the rest of you

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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 01:32 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
I don't know about availability but there might not be much motivation for a revamp for some vendors depending on the waterblock orientation and fin density.



Cuplex Kryos Next has fins covering 28.2 x 31.4 mm or 25x28mm per xtremerigs. (source: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...erblock/3.html , https://www.xtremerigs.net/2016/12/2...lock-review/3/)

The IHS on Ryzen is ~37x37mm.

For comparison:

Looking at this:
Attachment 283444
The IO die at the left of the image is more or less on center and is 13x9mm roughly
Each CPU die is ~11x8mm

(source https://www.anandtech.com/show/13829...e-4-eight-core)


Also see the IR imaging of the Ryzen chiplets
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/48258310682


I'd say at least 12mm is needed from the centerline to cover the CPU cores (i.e. 24mm+ cooling engine dimension).
Have there been a study which die gets warmer? I assume the cpu die. If it is, then flow should go there first, then the other die.

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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 10:00 AM
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The reason early threadripper blocks from EKWB were so poor is because of no microfins at all where the dies were. There's no difference in this situation if you put the flow against the CPU die or not, I doubt the IO die is putting out enough heat (<20W probably) for it to matter enough in the grand scheme of things.


See https://www.ekwb.com/news/an-apology...e-enthusiasts/


" The flow of the EK block produced better temperature results (barely) in our sideways misassembled configuration. In stock configuration it would not support our 4GHz Threadripper overclock." - https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017...block_review/3


Quote:
The EK Supremacy EVO Threaripper Edition seems to be a very well built waterblock that was not truly designed for Threadripper CPUs as it applies to high end enthusiast usage. The size of of EK's microfin footprint seems to be crippling its performance. The orientation of the coldplate also seems to impact cooling as well as we found out by accident, which I guess is a good thing, but surely only further points to EK's lacking in testing and design. Maybe they have bigger fish to fry and are resting on their laurels?

If we look at the EK block from a value proposition compared to the XSPC RayStorm NEO, the picture is a bit different, as the XSPC is now going for $110, where the EK Threadripper block is selling for $78 in is basic black trim. That said, the XSPC design looks a lot better and has Frag-Harder lights, but that may or may not hold value for you. Where this all goes off the rails for EK is when you remember that we have the Bykski Threadripper waterblock in the mix as well at $65. The Bykski underperforms the RayStorm but only by a degree for a lot less cost.

In the Threadripper enthusiast waterblock market, EK fails at performance and EK fails at value. The EVO is a capable waterblock that is far from "bad," but if you are looking to overclock that Threadripper to 4GHz, we would have to suggest you look elsewhere.

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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 10:20 AM
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the bykski block also fits AM4
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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 10:22 AM
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Heatkiller is coming out with one but its still in design phase. So give it some time. In meantime, use your existing block. It should perform perfectly fine.
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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I've seen the images of the delidded 3900X with the I/O die and its orientation to the chiplets, but that image with the size of the substrate and the size of the chiplets helped me visualize what the coverage might be with my cpu block. I just reduced the size of the image on screen till the substrate was the same size as a mm ruler held against the screen at 40mm. That gave me an idea that the comments about the current cpu block fin stack array would probably be totally sufficient. I agree that one side of the fin stack to the right of the jet plate entry would be the hottest since that would be above the two CCD's while the left side of the fin stack would be pretty cold with the amount of heat coming off the I/O die probably being minimal.

Thanks for the visual aids and cpu block array sizes. I also have a XSPC Raystorm Pro block that I could use also. The Cuplex Kryos was only about 2 °C. cooler than the Raystorm Pro on my 2700X. But every little bit helps. I do not like running at 80° C. all the time. I hope to get the temps down to the low 70's which is where I run my 2700X's at.

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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 06:58 PM
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If it's for BOINC
It's also going to depend on load : on AVX load such as [email protected] my Ryzen chip is around 10°C hotter than World Community Grid or other loads.


Anything with AVX2 is going to really be hot even more since Ryzen 3rd gen has double wide AVX rather than combining 2x AVX 128-bit.

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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:22 AM
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I was wondering if there might be something to this with certain AIO designs too. It seems like some people are reporting extremely high temps with some AIO coolers and decent temps with others that would preform similar on another CPU.

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