How much will a 140mm Radiator help in cooling my Phanteks Pro M SE - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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How much will a 140mm Radiator help in cooling my Phanteks Pro M SE

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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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How much will a 140mm Radiator help in cooling my Phanteks Pro M SE

OK, there is a lot of info here, so I hope it's not too much.

Build: msi C8r (Carbon8r)
Core i7-9700K, MSI Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON Mobo, AMD Radeon VII GPU, Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM, Phanteks Enthoo Pro M SE ATX Case.
XSPC RayStorm Pro CPU w/b, Bykski Radeon VII GPU w/b, EKWB 140 Revo D5 RGB Pump & Res.
Aquacomputer Aquaero 6 LT USB Fan-Controller, Vision Touch and 'High Flow' Sensor.
(2x) HwLabs Black Ice Nemesis 280GTS XFLOW radiators in full push/pull with 6x Deepcool CF 140mm & 2x Prolimatech 140mm Slim Fans.

My I7-9700K CPU is OC to 4.9Ghz and my Radeon VII is OC to 1950Ghz (memory 1200Mhz).

My idea for the build was a fast and powerful Gaming PC / Workstation with silent performance. I chose the Deepcool CF140 fans because the moved a lot of air, were quiet, had aRGB, and were less than half the price of Corsair ML140's. Unfortunately, their static pressure is not the best.
Fan Speed 500±200 -1200±10%RPM
Fan Air Flo 64.13CFM
Fan Air Pressure 1.09mmH2O
Fan Noise Level 19.8~24dB(A)

I accidently purchased two HwLabs Black Ice Nemesis 280GTS XFLOW radiators instead of one. After reading the reviews for these rads, I sent back the XSPC EX280 rad I had planned on using up top.
According to this review (https://www.xtremerigs.net/2016/02/19/13271/5/) these combined radiators should be able to handle (theoretically) the following heat loads at 10c over ambient:
Push/Pull @ 750 rpm = 400 watts
Push/Pull @ 1300 rpm = 600 watts
Push/Pull @ 1850 rpm = 700 watts

In my original air flow configuration I had the Front Rad on intake and the Top Rad on Exhaust. I also had the rear fan on Intake to get additional cooling on the memory and VRMs and also give the Top Rad a boost.

See Original Airflow.jpg

During a sustained heat load stress test my CPU maintained about 75c Max and GPU Hot Spot hovered around 80c. My Loop Delta T was running about 18c to 19c with an ambient of 26c. Loop was running around 45c to 46c. When gaming I was typically in the 16c area.

After reading several different forum posts (some here on OC) about re-orienting your radiators for all Intake, I started to realize that the argument was valid. (The phrase "Radiators love Fresh Air" stuck in my mind).
I tested it out by taking my glass off the case and using cardboard redirected the warm exhaust from the front rad, allowing much cooler air to enter the top rad. As soon as the temps equalized I could see the case was running at least 3c to 4c cooler.

As soon as I had a free weekend, I tore down the top of my case and flipped all the fans around. I also flipped the Rear Intake to a Rear Exhaust. While the loop was down I also repasted the blocks with TG Kryonaut to ensure good contact.

See Optimal Airflow.jpg

I also added a leftover Deepcool CF120 fan I had as exhaust. I did not want to just tie wrap this on. I had extra bar magnets from Amazon, stuck them on the sides with really good 3M double sided tape (on three sides of the fan) and popped the fan over the Open Pcie slots (4). It fit surprisingly well and can be removed as needed. I even put a little flap at the top to better force the fan to pull the air from the case.

See pics below.

In re-running the sustained heat load stress tests my CPU maintained about 67c Max and GPU Hot Spot hovered around 70c. My Loop Delta T was running about 13c to 14c with an ambient of 26c. Loop was running under 40c. When gaming I am typically running around 11C. Overall, I was very happy with the improvement.


***So, with the whole picture laid out my question is: How much will an external 140mm Radiator help in providing additional cooling for my Phanteks Pro M SE at this point?***

Keep in mind, the rad is going to be on the Exhaust this time AND it will be the LAST rad to get the coolant, so I am not expecting optimal cooling here.
I haven't purchased the radiator but will go with the Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper X-Flow 280mm radiator. I can drain this, add a bleed valve and a temp sensor to the extra ports.
I have all the other spare parts I need and I can hang the 140 fairly easily (only a little modding for tubing holes). My only cost will be the radiator.
It will be in Push/Pull config with leftover 2x Phanteks PH-F140MP RADIATOR FAN (Better SP than the Deepcool)

If I can drop the Loop temp down another 1c I would be happy with that.

Also, the plan is that eventually I mount another pump outside the case for redundancy and to improve flow. At 100% my loop was just under 1 GPM, however, I usually run my pump at a steady 90%. Another pump would be useful. The 140 crossflow radiator will allow me connect the pump to the loop easily.

Thanks for reading and let me know what you think.
Attached Thumbnails
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Build: msi C8r (Carbon8r)
Core i7-9700K OC 5 GHz, MSI Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON Mobo, AMD Radeon VII GPU OC 2K MHz, Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM, Phanteks Enthoo Pro M SE ATX Case.
XSPC RayStorm Pro CPU w/b, Bykski Radeon VII GPU w/b, EKWB 140 Revo D5 Pump & Res.
Aquacomputer Aquaero 6 LT USB Fan-Controller, Vision Touch and 'High Flow' Sensor.
(2x) Hardware Labs Black ice Nemesis 280GTS XFLOW radiators and (1x) Alphacool NexXxoS XT45X-Flow 140 in full push/pull.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 04:52 PM
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If you decide to upgrade your GPU just about any GPU is going to be massively less power, so I don't think it's worth the monetary investment.

► Recommended GPU Projects: [email protected] , [email protected] (FP64) (AMD moreso) ► Other notable GPU projects: [email protected] (Nvidia), GPUGrid (Nvidia) ► Project list


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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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No, I am planning on sticking with the Radeon VII for a while.

I know it's a power pig but it plays well with my free-sync 2 32" curved Samsung.

Build: msi C8r (Carbon8r)
Core i7-9700K OC 5 GHz, MSI Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON Mobo, AMD Radeon VII GPU OC 2K MHz, Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM, Phanteks Enthoo Pro M SE ATX Case.
XSPC RayStorm Pro CPU w/b, Bykski Radeon VII GPU w/b, EKWB 140 Revo D5 Pump & Res.
Aquacomputer Aquaero 6 LT USB Fan-Controller, Vision Touch and 'High Flow' Sensor.
(2x) Hardware Labs Black ice Nemesis 280GTS XFLOW radiators and (1x) Alphacool NexXxoS XT45X-Flow 140 in full push/pull.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 11:05 PM
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If you want a extra rad
All you will get is about 1 to 3 c reduced temps at most.
This will not get you any more overclocks assuming prime stable.

If you want more you need the lapping cpu and block and gpu block
I do not recomend lapping GPUS
 
You shouldn't lapp the cpu because you can still get warranty when it dies from overclocking.
Oficcaly you cannot get warranty, but you can still get approved when you try to ask for it

Heat transfer from cpu IHS to block is the main limiting factor in more OC, you can drop 5 to 10c from lapping only the cpu block.
But you need to do it correctly with a glass object otherwise your making things worse and you need at least 1 hour to lapp it.

If your cpu is scalling with voltages then you will get more OC
But if you already hit the wall then all you can do is reduce the voltage a bit for same clock

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Overclocking is not about the pefromance gains, it is about the passion
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Iwamotto Tetsuz View Post
If you want a extra rad
All you will get is about 1 to 3 c reduced temps at most.
This will not get you any more overclocks assuming prime stable.

If you want more you need the lapping cpu and block and gpu block
I do not recomend lapping GPUS
 
You shouldn't lapp the cpu because you can still get warranty when it dies from overclocking.
Oficcaly you cannot get warranty, but you can still get approved when you try to ask for it

Heat transfer from cpu IHS to block is the main limiting factor in more OC, you can drop 5 to 10c from lapping only the cpu block.
But you need to do it correctly with a glass object otherwise your making things worse and you need at least 1 hour to lapp it.

If your cpu is scalling with voltages then you will get more OC
But if you already hit the wall then all you can do is reduce the voltage a bit for same clock
Actually 1 to 3c reduction may actually be worth it to me. The fans will ramp up slower, and the case will run quieter.
If it was going to be less than half a C, then maybe not worth it.

I am using the Phanteks 140 fans that came with my case and some extra G1/4 fittings I already had.
So I am basically buying a radiator and a couple of other fittings for under a $100 with shipping.
Then if I can find a GOOD used pump/res on ebay, I can add that for later on for increased flow and redundancy.

Regarding the OC, these were just the first settings I found that were stable. Kept them for the time being and then did my rad swap out (to intake) which was a month ago.
Now that I know the system is performing better, i may try to stretch out their legs some more.

However, I will absolutely keep in mind your info about OC in regards to scaling the voltages.
I bought a 9th gen Intel so I wouldn't need to worry about delidding. I didn't plan on lapping it.

I have heard that lapping the Radeon VII GPU is worth it for performance, but that it MUST be performed on glass and even the slightest incorrect pressure will damage it.
So I will not be lapping the GPU either.

Thanks for info!

Build: msi C8r (Carbon8r)
Core i7-9700K OC 5 GHz, MSI Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON Mobo, AMD Radeon VII GPU OC 2K MHz, Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM, Phanteks Enthoo Pro M SE ATX Case.
XSPC RayStorm Pro CPU w/b, Bykski Radeon VII GPU w/b, EKWB 140 Revo D5 Pump & Res.
Aquacomputer Aquaero 6 LT USB Fan-Controller, Vision Touch and 'High Flow' Sensor.
(2x) Hardware Labs Black ice Nemesis 280GTS XFLOW radiators and (1x) Alphacool NexXxoS XT45X-Flow 140 in full push/pull.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 06:31 PM
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If you want external mounting of the radators, you need a vice and hopefully your local stores will sell steel braces or sheet metal.
By using thinn sheets of steel braces with or without pre drilled holes you can bend them easily and adapt out and mount the radators in any way you want.
The sheet metal can also easily be cut using a metal hack saw which is commonly avalible.

I did it this way to make my external mounted radators.

Just becarefull to not damage your computer.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/1808...l#post28074180

I can see why you want extra radator, just that tiny detail to make the cooling perfect and tuned maxed out.

Overcloking is about the passion, not about how much you clock
Overclocking is not about the pefromance gains, it is about the passion
Overclocking is about the Fun, Enjoyment and Passion

Pushing Voltages And Lower Tempertures Makes You The Overclocking Champion
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually, I have just started rethinking the additional pump idea.

If so, i can easily just attach my rad through my existing fan case holes. I don't think I will need any additional braces. It won't be as heavy.

And yes, I think you are right - that is why I am considering this. To max it out.
By adding that rad I will have 700mm x 140mm of rad surface working for me, all in push/pull. On a Phanteks Enthoo Pro M SE. Kinda awesome.

Build: msi C8r (Carbon8r)
Core i7-9700K OC 5 GHz, MSI Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON Mobo, AMD Radeon VII GPU OC 2K MHz, Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM, Phanteks Enthoo Pro M SE ATX Case.
XSPC RayStorm Pro CPU w/b, Bykski Radeon VII GPU w/b, EKWB 140 Revo D5 Pump & Res.
Aquacomputer Aquaero 6 LT USB Fan-Controller, Vision Touch and 'High Flow' Sensor.
(2x) Hardware Labs Black ice Nemesis 280GTS XFLOW radiators and (1x) Alphacool NexXxoS XT45X-Flow 140 in full push/pull.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 09:56 PM
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If I was you I wouldn't stress craming another pump in there.

If you want another pump its gonna be a big job.
Ideally you need anotther resvior to work well. (Serires connection)
Or you can have them split using a y fitting then connecting directly below the resivor. (If parallel connection)

The thinn rads typically has high water resitance and you need the pump with high pressure or them in series to get more flow.
Thick rads typically has the internals in parallel, if doubble thickness resitance is halfed. You want pumps with low pressure and highest flow rate and putting pumps in parallel.

Depends on cpu block, but most cpu block are fairly low water resitance.

140mm thinn rads typically also low resistance, that extra area is enough for you to get maximum flow on a cheap sc600 pump and micro channel waterblock.
The 120mm rads with circular water path is also low resistance but this is quite rare to get.

Water flow you get arround 4 - 8C colder water temps when goign from slow to fairly slow speeds to higher speeds.
Then the perfomance gains starts to drop away because the radator water channel to water delta is very near 0 degrees.

Overcloking is about the passion, not about how much you clock
Overclocking is not about the pefromance gains, it is about the passion
Overclocking is about the Fun, Enjoyment and Passion

Pushing Voltages And Lower Tempertures Makes You The Overclocking Champion
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I decided to not go with the pump. After doing additional research (thanks Martins Liquid Lab) I realized that I have almost a GPM flow rate (@ 100%) and that is good enough for me.

I think I really want the rad though. I will need to mod two holes for the tubing, but I have a 1" knockout punch and die for that.

I think if I do this I may also remove the case mesh over the fan to remove any additional air restriction on Exhaust. Hopefully the Phanteks PH-F140MP fans will be quieter as well.
*Both the top and front of my case are sealed up really well. With both 280 rads on Intake the case is over-pressurized, even with a 140 and 120 on Exhaust.*

Build: msi C8r (Carbon8r)
Core i7-9700K OC 5 GHz, MSI Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON Mobo, AMD Radeon VII GPU OC 2K MHz, Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM, Phanteks Enthoo Pro M SE ATX Case.
XSPC RayStorm Pro CPU w/b, Bykski Radeon VII GPU w/b, EKWB 140 Revo D5 Pump & Res.
Aquacomputer Aquaero 6 LT USB Fan-Controller, Vision Touch and 'High Flow' Sensor.
(2x) Hardware Labs Black ice Nemesis 280GTS XFLOW radiators and (1x) Alphacool NexXxoS XT45X-Flow 140 in full push/pull.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 07:21 PM
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yep, the returns are stupidly low over a GPM, that's for sure, they also fall off like a rock too.

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