Wait for Cuplex Kryos/Heatkiller or EK Velocity for 3700X? - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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Wait for Cuplex Kryos/Heatkiller or EK Velocity for 3700X?

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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Wait for Cuplex Kryos/Heatkiller or EK Velocity for 3700X?

Hi guys, trying to buy the stuff for my loop now that I have my new build together and it seems like everything is sold out now on PPC's and MMM. I was originally going to do a cuplex Kryos Next or maybe a heatkiller Pro but both are basically sold out unless I go for example the basic black acetyl/nickel on the Kryos. I was hoping to do one of the plexi models in case I do colored fluid/etc down the road or even some mild lighting would be nice. So now I need to figure out should I stick it out and wait for stock to come back, or would something like the newer EK Velocity blocks be ok quality/performance wise? As I said it would be on a 3700X for now, but possibly a higher core count chip in the future either next gen if it fits the socket or a 3950X late next year if the next gen does not still fit AM4.

If it matters it would be paired with a D5, either a 30mm HWL rad or a 45mm Alphacool in 360mm size for either, and GPU block will be an EVGA hydro copper 2080 super card.

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 04:01 PM
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The limiting factor with Ryzen 3rd gen is the CPU block (die coverage, fin density, and fin height) not the radiator unless your radiator is below 240mm. Ryzen IHS is 37mmx37mm but the dies are roughly 11mm from centerline so I would look at fin density firstly.


Kryos Next coverage is 28.2 x 31.4 mm , VSG thinks it's roughly equal to 73 fins , supposedly channels <0.2mm / 200micron
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...erblock/3.html
https://www.xtremerigs.net/2016/12/2...lock-review/3/


Heatkiller IV Pro has 78 microfins (Basic has 49 microfins) in ~ 27mm x 25.67mm coverage , slot width has been stated at 0.2mm / 200 micron
http://thermalbench.com/2015/04/03/w...-waterblock/3/ , https://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/04/2...lock-review/2/

EK Velocity has 30.5 x 34.5 mm coverage with about 52 fins
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/e...u-block/3.html


Swiftech Apogee SKF
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/s...-series/3.html

I am looking forward to testing by reviewers using the Swiftech Apogee SKF with < 125micron slotted fins and 34x34mm coverage area. It's highly restrictive to liquid flow but fin density should be favorable. A cut down version with the same fin density is used on their Drive X3 AIO's Apogee SKF LT block (sold separate for $50).

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Last edited by AlphaC; 08-14-2019 at 04:06 PM.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Ugh, now I don't know what to go with lol. New to watercooling. I've read and watched tons of things, but don't have the in depth tech knowledge of you guys that have been doing it for years to know how the fin density/etc. is going to affect me Just trying to figure out what to buy or wait for to come in stock to buy. If I understood right though, it sounds like the Kryos Next would be the better choice over the EK for example? Would it be very noticeable or are we talking like 1-2C under load? I think I was eyeing the EK due to that wider coverage since I knew the chiplets and I/O dies were spread out from the center on Ryzen 3rd gen.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 04:33 PM
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I've seen people get lower temps with higher fin count and fin height. It's just the nature of having 7nm rather than 14nm CPU such as Intel CPUs since 5th gen (5th gen on mobile / High End Desktop x99) and Ryzen 1st gen. With 14nm CPUs the temperatures were within 2°C for most CPU blocks as you see in the above reviews. Even with top tier blocks and plenty of radiator space we're seeing temps in the 70s (°C).


Heatkiller 76°C in Prime95 AVX with Ryzen 9: https://www.overclock.net/forum/61-w...l#post28065126


Keith Myers had the Cuplex running 2°C cooler than Raystorm Pro on Zen+ R7 2700X (12nm / 14nm improved): https://www.overclock.net/forum/61-w...l#post28060174

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
I've seen people get lower temps with higher fin count and fin height. It's just the nature of having 7nm rather than 14nm CPU such as Intel CPUs since 5th gen (5th gen on mobile / High End Desktop x99) and Ryzen 1st gen. With 14nm CPUs the temperatures were within 2°C for most CPU blocks as you see in the above reviews. Even with top tier blocks and plenty of radiator space we're seeing temps in the 70s (°C).


Heatkiller 76°C in Prime95 AVX with Ryzen 9: https://www.overclock.net/forum/61-w...l#post28065126


Keith Myers had the Cuplex running 2°C cooler than Raystorm Pro on Zen+ R7 2700X (12nm / 14nm improved): https://www.overclock.net/forum/61-w...l#post28060174
Thanks again for the reply. Yeah that thread is where I got the idea that maybe the EK block would be a good choice. I basically looked at the post with the measurements and said "oh that one has one of the widest coverages, bet that will work good" but sounds like I might be wrong lol. I did actually find a Kryos Next and possibly a Heatkiller VI Pro at PPC's that looked interesting to me (not sure if the HK was in stock now I looked at a LOT of stuff). MMM might be losing some business though if PPC's has one of those blocks in a design I like. Been trying to buy what I can from MMM since they've been very helpful over email for like 6 months now while I first planned out an Intel build then ended up switching and committing to a 3rd gen Ryzen build instead a few weeks ago. Trying to avoid feeling like a jerk and pulling a "thanks for the info sorry I'm gonna buy elsewhere cause you're temporarily out of stock". Problem is they've been progressively more out of stock the last few weeks and don't seem to know when they're getting more

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 12:56 AM
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Don't buy EK for crying out loud..

They overcharge you, and they overcharge you for something made of way too much plastic; a plastic that has time and time again proven to be brittle.
Now in as far as Aqua Computer vs Watercool.de may be concerned?
- Temperatures-wise the difference will be minimal to non-existent, your conditions depending, so that's out.
- Occasionally, you do get the odd "W T F" product from Aqua Computer; something that may look like just the thing on paper, but is in fact .. a touch off, disappointing, or altogether awkward for no apparent reason. Their blocks don't fall into that category, be they for C or G PUs. That being the case, i'd go for AQ sorely on the assumption that my money is better spent on them rather than on Watercool (am thinking solely in terms of 'support', which company out of the two 'needs' it the most, etc etc)

Regardless, as i stated, don't buy EK stuff; they haven't been worth their money in a looong, long time.

* edit: i see we have improved further.. typing W T F is also verbotten now.. anything, anything dear Lord, long as we appease the Offendotrons. Tumblr generation, i hail thee. All them rights.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 01:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aenra View Post
Don't buy EK for crying out loud..

They overcharge you, and they overcharge you for something made of way too much plastic; a plastic that has time and time again proven to be brittle.
Now in as far as Aqua Computer vs Watercool.de may be concerned?
- Temperatures-wise the difference will be minimal to non-existent, your conditions depending, so that's out.
- Occasionally, you do get the odd "W T F" product from Aqua Computer; something that may look like just the thing on paper, but is in fact .. a touch off, disappointing, or altogether awkward for no apparent reason. Their blocks don't fall into that category, be they for C or G PUs. That being the case, i'd go for AQ sorely on the assumption that my money is better spent on them rather than on Watercool (am thinking solely in terms of 'support', which company out of the two 'needs' it the most, etc etc)

Regardless, as i stated, don't buy EK stuff; they haven't been worth their money in a looong, long time.

* edit: i see we have improved further.. typing W T F is also verbotten now.. anything, anything dear Lord, long as we appease the Offendotrons. Tumblr generation, i hail thee. All them rights.


Thanks for the info. Yeah after the discussion earlier in the thread I have settled on the cheaper basic cuplex kryos next acetyl copper that's in stock for <$70 and then I can always upgrade if a really good Ryzen 3000 series model comes out from someone. Seems the logical route to go. PPCs has an acrylic one for Intel and the conversion kit but I decided I didn't like the look actually.


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Seasonic Prime Ultra
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 01:24 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by flyinion View Post
Thanks for the info. Yeah after the discussion earlier in the thread I have settled on the cheaper basic cuplex kryos next acetyl copper that's in stock for <$70 and then I can always upgrade
You're more than welcome;
Also, you won't need to upgrade the block, delta-wise they're all the same. Exclusion being the VARIO models, which can theoretically net you a couple of degrees Delta variance, but it takes a lot of time, a lot of patience and a bit of a back pain from all the bending over your block. No need

Generally speaking, i'd advise a nickel or PVD-plated block rather than acetal; again, not due to performance variances (none), but due to the peace of mind they give you. You're never going to crack PVD while screwing your fitting down. You can and will on acetal though.
Even so, i can say i've never cracked an AQ block; have cracked EK's though ^^

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-15-2019, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aenra View Post
You're more than welcome;
Also, you won't need to upgrade the block, delta-wise they're all the same. Exclusion being the VARIO models, which can theoretically net you a couple of degrees Delta variance, but it takes a lot of time, a lot of patience and a bit of a back pain from all the bending over your block. No need

Generally speaking, i'd advise a nickel or PVD-plated block rather than acetal; again, not due to performance variances (none), but due to the peace of mind they give you. You're never going to crack PVD while screwing your fitting down. You can and will on acetal though.
Even so, i can say i've never cracked an AQ block; have cracked EK's though ^^
Guess I'll just have to be careful if I don't want to wait for stock. Most of this stuff is sold out. MMM for example the next block up they have in stock is the $130 copper one with the Vision addon. Looks like PPC's has a couple of nickel/nickel blocks left, but nothing else in the system was going to be chrome/nickel hmmm. Guess I could re-add all the fittings as chrome.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I went with the Acetyl/Copper Cuplex Kryos block. As I said, if someone releases a Ryzen 3000 optimized block that gives a big improvement due to changing where the fins are, density, etc over the chiplets then I can always upgrade to it but this will definitely get me going. Here's screenshot of the order. Still picking fans. I'm debating the 3 in 1 SF360 ARGB kit from CM that puts 3 fans into a 360mm sized frame and ties all the connectors up so there's one 4 pin PWM and one 3 pin ARGB connector to connect up instead of 3 of each. It's not as high pressure as Vardar or Silent Wings 3 that I was looking at, but it's better than just pure airflow flans. Seems like they're a hybrid design based on CM's marketing. I caught MMM's anniversary sale and saved roughly about 19% overall. This is going to be my first watercooling of any kind (AIO, custom loop, etc.) so I'm really excited and hope the hours and hours of reading and watching tons of youtube how to's/etc is going to pay with my choices.
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ID:	289596  


The Devil's Canyon
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ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero
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EVGA RTX 2080 Super FTW3 Hydro Copper
RAM
GSkill Trident Neo
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Samsung 970 Evo Plus
Hard Drive
Samsung 860 Evo
Power Supply
Seasonic Prime Ultra
Cooling
Aquacomputer Cuplex Kryos NEXT AM4 Acetal/Copper
Cooling
Alphacool ST30 360mm Rad V.2
Cooling
Alphacool Eisbecher D5 150mm Res
Cooling
Aquacomputer D5 PWM
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Barrow G1/4 fittings
Case
Coolermaster H500M
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EVGA GTX 1070 SC Gaming Black Edition
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WD2002FAEX
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Samsung 850 EVO
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