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post #1 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Moved to a 3950x, need watercooling Advice

I recently upgraded to a 3950X and I was curious about water cooling. I have a Lian Li Dynamic case, so it's pretty ideal for it, but I'm curious what the cost is going to be like for what I'd want out of it.

Ideally, I just want to cool my cpu, and ignore gpu for now, but with the ability to add a GPU at a later time without having to upgrade parts. Considering my GPU is a already a hybrid it seems like a waste of money to water cool it. The easiest/safest solution would be the best for me, even if it isn't the best solution. Something that can be tested for leaks easily, and or is as leak-proof as possible would be ideal. So being able to drain it easily, or requiring very low maintenance, so I guess a low dissipation rate? I assume this would not use hard tubing, as it seems a lot more challenging and requires additional tools. I'd consider it if it were notably safer/lower maintenance. I don't plan on upgrading my cpu for likely 2-3 years.

I don't own any tools or parts to do water cooling atm beyond some fans, so I need a baseline price expectation on what It would look like. I don't know the lifespan of water cooling, or how much of it can be reused for future builds, vs what will need replacement every few years.

Sorry for being so unknowledgeable, but this seemed like the place to go to find out from people that actually do this kind of thing a lot.

I'm in Canada, so some options may be completely off the table due to no shipping/costing more than alternate options. I'm assuming any prices mentioned are USD.

Edit- with a new plan based on feedback:
I will likely go with the Optimus Foundation.
As for rads, I'm leaning towards either 1 GTS radiator or 2 slim copper rads off Aliexpress.
Swiftech Maelstrom D5, unless I change my mind on round reservoirs which I might.
I really like colored coolant, but don't like the idea of it gunking things up, so might consider colored soft tubing instead.
After seeing a lot of builds I almost exclusively like silver metal fittings. Thankfully I looked because I would have originally just grabbed black.
I'd ideally want to do a color theme, but I'm so bad at picking something I won't hate in the future...

AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
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post #2 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 02:26 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ryokoseigo View Post
I recently upgraded to a 3950X and I was curious about water cooling. I have a Lian Li Dynamic case, so it's pretty ideal for it, but I'm curious what the cost is going to be like for what I'd want out of it.

Ideally, I just want to cool my cpu, and ignore gpu for now, but with the ability to add a GPU at a later time without having to upgrade parts. Considering my GPU is a already a hybrid it seems like a waste of money to water cool it. The easiest/safest solution would be the best for me, even if it isn't the best solution. Something that can be tested for leaks easily, and or is as leak-proof as possible would be ideal. So being able to drain it easily, or requiring very low maintenance, so I guess a low dissipation rate? I assume this would not use hard tubing, as it seems a lot more challenging and requires additional tools. I'd consider it if it were notably safer/lower maintenance. I don't plan on upgrading my cpu for likely 2-3 years.

I don't own any tools or parts to do water cooling atm beyond some fans, so I need a baseline price expectation on what It would look like. I don't know the lifespan of water cooling, or how much of it can be reused for future builds, vs what will need replacement every few years.

Sorry for being so unknowledgeable, but this seemed like the place to go to find out from people that actually do this kind of thing a lot.

I'm in Canada, so some options may be completely off the table due to no shipping/costing more than alternate options. I'm assuming any prices mentioned are USD.
Your best option for "Safe" and fail-proof water cooling is picking you up a 360 or 280 EKWB Phoenix. Then instead of using their AM4 block, which kind of REALLY Sucks on Zen2, get yourself an Optimus Foundation AM4 Block, Its pricey but its one of the best, if not THE best for Zen2. Then to hook it into the QDC (Quick Disconnects) on the Phoenix, Pick up just 1 QDC on Amazon. Then Get you some ZMT 10/16mm Tubing, two 10/16 Fittings, and Some EKWB Clear KryoFuel (DO NOT Get any of their colored fluid, just stick with the Clear fluid and you will be golden, its what they are already using in the Prefilled Phoenix.) And then you are good! Its what Started me on my Water Cooling Journey in 2017. I had already done Deliding, Direct Die Cooling, and AIO's for years up until that point, but never crossed into proper watercooling until I got my First Phoenix.

The Rad comes with a Pump Built in that is enough flow rate to cover One CPU Block and One GPU Block, and its Expandable via those Disconnects. It has 2 Extra G1/4 Ports on it, so you can use one as a fill port and a Drain to easily fill and drain the loop. Its really easy to use, and when you are ready you can add your GPU using all off the shelf parts, and have no problem at all, and the Performance with the Optimus Block will be top Notch!

There is an AlphaCool one alot like this, but these Quick Disconnects are what make the Phoenix the Winner For me. They Do not make them any more unfortunately, but they are constantly on Clearance, I am pretty certain you can still buy one at a much better price then I picked mine up for in 2017.

-MattTheTech

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post #3 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 02:28 PM
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The big thing is going to be to start with solid components, and make sure that they will be useful in expansion. For example, you could get by with a small DDC pump on a CPU only loop, but spending a few dollars more on a D5 gets you a pump that will have great longevity and be able to be used in an upgrade. The nice thing about a loop is that it is expandable, so you can always add to it, but buying parts with expansion in mind saves a lot of money in the long run.

And, yes, if you want easier maintenance and additions, stick with soft tubing.

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post #4 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 02:33 PM
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Here. Since they are sold out of the 360 and 280, just get 2 Of the 240's. They are on Clearance so you can get 2 almost for the price of 1 Normally. I would jump on them before they are sold out. This will also give you even better flow rate since you will now have 2 SPC Pumps in the loop, which will help when you eventually put the GPU in the Loop. If you need links to everything else, let me know. This is going to cost you, probably after the Blocks, Fittings, QDC, Tubing, and Fluid, you will be looking at about $600US, maybe a little less. But you will be setup to go full open loop later, its super simple to do maintenance because you can disconnect via the QDC's without even one Drop spilling, with the Optimus Block on your CPU you will have excellent performance at low temps, you will be really happy withit and will be completely set up to expand later. Unfortunately once EK Sells out of these, until they come out with their next version, the existing options will be limited if you don't want to do full open loop right now. So I would Jump in while you can!

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-mlc-pho...or-core-module

-MattTheTech

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post #5 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 02:37 PM
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Hi,
Start with the best water blocks
https://optimuspc.com/products/foundation-cpu-block-amd

The rest is up to budget D5 always
Watercool is the best price range and looks for reservoir if you can get everything from Performance pc

Really depends on region U.S.A.
Optimus for local U.S. parts but it's pricey but as a startup they do warranty for 10 years

Most only have 2 year warranty but it is International and it bites

Fittings/ soft hosing you can save a little there with alphacool fittings and watercool hosing and fluid.

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post #6 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ryokoseigo View Post
I recently upgraded to a 3950X and I was curious about water cooling. I have a Lian Li Dynamic case, so it's pretty ideal for it, but I'm curious what the cost is going to be like for what I'd want out of it.

Ideally, I just want to cool my cpu, and ignore gpu for now, but with the ability to add a GPU at a later time without having to upgrade parts. Considering my GPU is a already a hybrid it seems like a waste of money to water cool it. The easiest/safest solution would be the best for me, even if it isn't the best solution. Something that can be tested for leaks easily, and or is as leak-proof as possible would be ideal. So being able to drain it easily, or requiring very low maintenance, so I guess a low dissipation rate? I assume this would not use hard tubing, as it seems a lot more challenging and requires additional tools. I'd consider it if it were notably safer/lower maintenance. I don't plan on upgrading my cpu for likely 2-3 years.

I don't own any tools or parts to do water cooling atm beyond some fans, so I need a baseline price expectation on what It would look like. I don't know the lifespan of water cooling, or how much of it can be reused for future builds, vs what will need replacement every few years.

Sorry for being so unknowledgeable, but this seemed like the place to go to find out from people that actually do this kind of thing a lot.

I'm in Canada, so some options may be completely off the table due to no shipping/costing more than alternate options. I'm assuming any prices mentioned are USD.

Hello - I'm in Canada (West Coast) as well and while getting water-cooling parts can be a bit more expensive and time-consuming compared to the big US retailers, it is nothing prohibitive. For a CPU-only loop, it all comes down to factors such as cost, RGB and expandability (GPU connectors and such) down the line. All that said, for basic setups, since 2012 I use either 1x or 2x XSPC RX360 rad(s) (depends on how much OC voltage), a mini-reservoir from Swiftech or the like, and dual Swiftech MPC655 (D5 type) pumps in series (> server). D5 dual pumps in series are typically not required for home use as D5s tend to be very reliable...though for server use, dual pumps in series just give you that extra peace of mind. For consumer stuff, a reservoir with a built-in (rather than separate) D5 pump is also a good solution.

If you plan to change things around or upgrade later (ie bring GPU into the loop, or add a second GPU), so-called Quick-Disconnects in your loop are useful as well...I always go with Koolance QD4s for that. Beyond that, there's a plethora of choices re. CPU blocks (my standard is Watercool Heatkiller IV, but there are others) and for fans...you have to choose RGB or not, high pressure and/or low noise. For basic high performance non-RGB, I use the Corsair ML (magnetic levitation) 120mm (or even 140mm, depending on the rad). Tubing is a whole other ball-game. My latest build includes rigid copper tubing, but for years I lived nicely with either Primochill LRT (1/2 ID, 3/4OD) or better yet EK ZMT flat black (1/2 ID, 3/4OD) rubber tubing (the latter = 'industrial' look and superb function). Then there is also rigid and clear acrylic or PETG tubing to choose from for less 'industrial and fancy, more RGB' shiny builds. For fluids, most folks will recommend Mayhem, and rightly so. I myself use a 50/50 mix of distilled water and Thermaltake Coolant 1000. Others my differ by my is to stay away from 'pastels', and or mix different coolants from different or even the same vendors.

Last edited by J7SC; 01-20-2020 at 03:52 PM.
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post #7 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
Here. Since they are sold out of the 360 and 280, just get 2 Of the 240's. They are on Clearance so you can get 2 almost for the price of 1 Normally. I would jump on them before they are sold out. This will also give you even better flow rate since you will now have 2 SPC Pumps in the loop, which will help when you eventually put the GPU in the Loop. If you need links to everything else, let me know. This is going to cost you, probably after the Blocks, Fittings, QDC, Tubing, and Fluid, you will be looking at about $600US, maybe a little less. But you will be setup to go full open loop later, its super simple to do maintenance because you can disconnect via the QDC's without even one Drop spilling, with the Optimus Block on your CPU you will have excellent performance at low temps, you will be really happy withit and will be completely set up to expand later. Unfortunately once EK Sells out of these, until they come out with their next version, the existing options will be limited if you don't want to do full open loop right now. So I would Jump in while you can!

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-mlc-pho...or-core-module

Yeah I started doing some searches and doesn't seem it's possible to get the 360mm anywhere. My only issue with this option is mostly down to positioning, 2 of these means using up both the top and front of the case as exhaust, which guarantees a negative pressure. I guess that's fine, but just a bit annoying and ugly, in that you need to use up both spots where you should have 3 fans, with only 2.

Wouldn't having to combine both pumps into 1 be a fair bit more complicated, and also double the failure rate?

I'm a bit confused on the difference between full open loop and this setup, and why this option is safer/easier, or can't be replicated without this specific radiator.

Edit- a guy on ebay has it and would ship to Canada, but its a pretty big price, so not sure if worth it over the 2 rad option. +20$ to ship to Canada. Also the EKWB site doesn't have an add to cart option for the 240mm. Er, perhaps it will show up on the 24th, odd that it is being done this way. It's about 40USD to ship from EKWB.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/EK-MLC-Phoen...=true#shpCntId


Editv2-
I parted all the things you mentioned, 2*240mm rads, the waterblock, 1000ml of the coolant, some tubing(they only have EK Duraclear for clear tubes), 1 QDC(I'm guessing you only need 1, and that it's connecting the tubes to the cpu block) 4 fittings(assuming 4 due to 2 rads) Comes to 468USD including shipping. Saves a lot due to being able to pickup everything but the waterblock on EKWB site, so only 2 shipping charges. Amazon.ca seems to be worthless. Am I missing something? I think that's a decent price, but I guess the real question is, does this setup perform well enough to warrant it over an aio? And perform well enough to be worth it over going external pump?

AMD Ryzen 9 3950X
Asus Tuf Gaming X570-Plus
Gamdias 360mm AIO
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Last edited by ryokoseigo; 01-20-2020 at 03:53 PM.
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post #8 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 04:02 PM
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I have the same case as you, but the XL version haha. I can get a picture later. My setup is similar to what you were looking for. Custom loop for just CPU with option to upgrade to support GPU. I went with the Bykski water block though. It's pretty big since it was designed to support TR4 too, and my temps seem to be decent enough to let me OC and bench. I never break 80c, but it is winter at my location. Ambient is around 20c. I run 1 360mm thin rad, and hardline tubings. I got 6 intake fans and 3 exhaust (where the rad is), and 1 rear exhaust. Intake is on the bottom and side of the case.

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post #9 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I looked at pricing for D5/res combo+bracket+360mm rad, and it's about 310$ Compared to the Phoenix*2 at 216$ (I'm still unclear of how you add water to the loop exactly in this setup, but under the assumption it doesn't need a res.)
So yeah I guess I just need to know the actual difference in personal handling between the two, and if paying for the D5 setup is the better value.

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post #10 of 149 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 04:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ryokoseigo View Post
I looked at pricing for D5/res combo+bracket+360mm rad, and it's about 310$ Compared to the Phoenix*2 at 216$ (I'm still unclear of how you add water to the loop exactly in this setup, but under the assumption it doesn't need a res.)
So yeah I guess I just need to know the actual difference in personal handling between the two, and if paying for the D5 setup is the better value.
There is a reason the Phoenix are discontinued and on clearance. Add in the fact that they don't have the proper size for your case..... And, yes, they are a major PITA to fill, bleed or expand.

Yeah....the little girl hentai avatar is really creeping me out....
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