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Explanation for Gradual Water Loss

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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-03-2020, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Explanation for Gradual Water Loss

Greetings,

My personal watercooling experience is limited to two gaming systems. The first was completed in 2011, and was only just replaced with a new system in May, 2019. The first was soft tubing and the second was (is) hard tubing.

Here's my question: What would account for having to occasionally, but continually, add water to what should be a closed system?

In the case of the soft-tubing system, I found that I had to add an ounce or two every, oh... 6 months, or so. In the case of this newer hard-tubing system, I find that I am adding water even more often than that.

In both builds there have never been any leaks. In both builds the fill-ports were properly sealed with a gasketed fitting.

In the first case the system was fully enclosed in one of Cooler Master's HAF Cases, (HAF 932?), and this new one is built on Thermaltake's Core P90 (so everything is out in the open and visible...)

Thanks,

- s.west
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-03-2020, 01:27 PM
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Hi,
Nothing cools like distilled water with inhibitor and biocide

Also nothing evaporates like distilled water

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-04-2020, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Hi,
Nothing cools like distilled water with inhibitor and biocide

Also nothing evaporates like distilled water
Well, that's 'zactly the combination I'm using. And, yes, it's always worked very well. After 8 years (in that 2011 system I mentioned) there was Zero evidence of fouling of any kind. The water wasn't even cloudy... From reading the various experiences that some folks have reported over the years I was always worried that things were going to go south and I would have to purge/disinfect/scrub/... the system at some point. Never happened. Also, I don't use any coloring of any kind, just what you listed. Do you have any colorant in your own system?

Anyway, to your other point about evaporation... That's really the question. How is it evaporating? I would think that if there was a path for water vapor to escape the system, then the water itself would also escape (i.e. leak). No?

Thanks for your response.

- s.west
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-04-2020, 09:26 AM
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Same reason a sealed and never opened water bottle left on a counter for years will start to look like a raisin. Plastics are in fact not 100% impermeable. O-ring seals arent 100% prefect. The rate is just so low as to be totally imperceptible other then observing the effect in a closed system over a long period of time.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-04-2020, 09:33 AM
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evap happens, even in hard tube builds.

specially if your system gets REALLY hot, you'll evap even faster.

out of your tubes, out of your radiator, out of your plastic reservoir, out of your pipe. it's just too damn slow to see as a "leak"

cars' coolant has to be topped off every now and then, no? it's just less common due to the huge reservoir.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-04-2020, 12:02 PM
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With soft tubing I can see you gradually losing some liquid every so often, soft tubing tend to absorb some water after awhile.

With hard tubing, once your system is fully bled, which again, could take weeks even months so maybe you still dealing with that, but you really shouldn't see a whole lot of liquid lose, at least not something very noticeable.

If it's obvious to your naked eye that you dropping every 2-3 months you might have ghost leak which is almost impossible to find.

Last edited by NewUser16; 02-04-2020 at 12:08 PM.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-04-2020, 12:13 PM
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Soft tubing allows for small water molecules to diffuse through the tubing. Hard tubing also does the same, depending on the material some faster than others. PETG is known for excessive diffusion through the material. Have you ever noticed bottles of water looking a little flat? I've got a bottle on the shelf just to prove this point. See attached photo. That's because water molecules have diffused through the PET.

Acrylic tubes have pretty good resistance to water loss over time but they still do a little. Since building my system with glass tubes, I've finally stopped virtually all water loss in my system.


Topping off once in a while isn't all that bad, especially if you're just using distilled water.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-04-2020, 12:28 PM
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Not well sealed and/or permeable tubing, as has been mentioned.

If it's a problem you might want to double check the seals on everything, including the res cap, and replace the tubing with something known to have low absorption and permeability, like Norprene.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-05-2020, 03:58 AM
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Hi,
Yep both sun light and or heat causes evaporation heat can be anything above room temperature or 24c/ 75f degrees
I don't use any colors anymore all they do is stain
Mayhems does have some so called nonstaining dies but I doubt I'd use them regardless.
But colors wouldn't prevent evaporation.

CPU
i9-9940x With Optimus Foundation copper-plexi and Heatkiller VRM Plexi-Copper water block
Motherboard
ASUS x299 Rampage VI Apex
GPU
Titan Xp with copper Water Block
RAM
Trident Z 3600C16 4x8gb's b-die default timings 16-16-16-36
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500gb M.2/ Samsung 850 Pro 256gb for os and 500gb evo for favorite games plus other wd hdd's for data and backup's
Optical Drive
LG Blu-Ray WH16NS40
Power Supply
evga 1200-P2
Cooling
2-280GTX Black Ice Nemesis rads with D5 pump-res combo and D5 top before and after rads.
Cooling
MO-RA3 360 PRO stainless steel (25022)
Case
corsair 450D with added 2nd floor to house radiator on top
Operating System
Win-7 pro & 10 pro Win-7 Primary os.
Monitor
ASUS VG248QE 24" 144Hz
Keyboard
Logitech G910 Orion spectrum
Mouse
Redragon Perdition
Audio
Built in realtek and Insignia 2.0 soundbar HSB318
Other
5.0/https://valid.x86.fr/ez2ifr
CPU
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Motherboard
X99 Sabertooth
GPU
EVGA 1080ti FTW3 with Water block
RAM
Trident-Z 3200C14 4x8gb's b-die default timings 14-14-14-34
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Evo 500gb M.2/ Samsung 850 Pro 256gb for os and 500gb evo for favorite games plus other wd hdd's for data and backup's
Power Supply
EVGA 1000-P2
Cooling
2-240 GTX Black Ice Nemesis rads/ D5 pump-res combo and D5 top before and after rads.
Case
Corsair 450D with added 2nd floor to house radiator on top
Operating System
Win-7 and 10 pro Win-7 Primary os.
Monitor
AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz
Mouse
Red Dragon Perdition
Audio
Built in realtek and Insignia 2.0 soundbar HSB318
Hard Drive
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-05-2020, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the responses.

I think the rate at which I am currently adding to the hard tube system can only be explained by the 'system not fully bled' possibility.

In this particular situation, my Core P90 'Case' is mounted on the wall, and so there is no way to do any of the shaking or tilting or inverting that I did with the soft tube system, which was built in a conventional full-tower case.

The other explanations, regarding the micro-porosity of the various elements of the system, can't account for the quantity of water I am adding, and the rate at which I am doing so.

I think that, for one thing, I selected a bad 'fill port' location (the top of the vertically-mounted radiator). I may drain some water out of this and relocate the fill port to the top of the, again vertically-mounted, reservoir and see if I have better luck at more quickly purging air from the system.

I'll revisit this thread in a few months and provide an update.

Thanks, again.

- s.west
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