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Liquid Metal paste on RX VEGA 64

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 02:50 AM
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The danger, or atleast fear of danger with the unmolded package is as far as i know if liquid metal comes in contact with the interposer, the thing which the core and hbm dies are connected to.

If the interposer has bare traces on the surface liquid metal shorting those would be bad.
Also, since the unmolded package has the core sitting higher than the hbm modules, i guess cooling on hbm modules would suffer if liquid metal is applied as per usual, very thin layer to both core and hbm.

I took the somewhat risky and at the same time safe approach of completely covering the interposer and smd components around the package with regular thermal paste so that only the surface of core and hbm stacks are visible.
Applied liquid metal as usual on core but on hbm i over applied the liquid metal, forming a small puddle on each hbm stack to try and get enough liquid metal to bridge the gap or height difference if you will to make contact with the waterblock.
If it worked or not or worth it i don't know but the hbm sits always at 2 degrees C above core temp...
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 04:12 AM
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I was thinking of LM for my Strix vega 56 but ended up going with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut for the die and HBM and Thermal Grizzly Minus Pad 8 for the VRMs ended up between 10-15c cooler on the lot. Definitely worth getting rid of the budget TIM and pads that are used.

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Spacebug View Post
The danger, or atleast fear of danger with the unmolded package is as far as i know if liquid metal comes in contact with the interposer, the thing which the core and hbm dies are connected to.

If the interposer has bare traces on the surface liquid metal shorting those would be bad.
Also, since the unmolded package has the core sitting higher than the hbm modules, i guess cooling on hbm modules would suffer if liquid metal is applied as per usual, very thin layer to both core and hbm.

I took the somewhat risky and at the same time safe approach of completely covering the interposer and smd components around the package with regular thermal paste so that only the surface of core and hbm stacks are visible.
Applied liquid metal as usual on core but on hbm i over applied the liquid metal, forming a small puddle on each hbm stack to try and get enough liquid metal to bridge the gap or height difference if you will to make contact with the waterblock.
If it worked or not or worth it i don't know but the hbm sits always at 2 degrees C above core temp...
okay, okay. I Fully understand what you mean.
But how can the Thermal Paste come to the Interposer?
As you can see, in the pictures.. or is the Interposer directly uncoverd in the slots...?
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 07:48 AM
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If I'm not mistaken, from the picture in your previous post, the copper colored area directly surrounding the core and hbm dies, which they sit upon/connected to are the interposer.
If you can see some copper or silicon colored surface directly under the core or hbm stacks, that is the interposer.
On my v64 package the interposer was visible all around the core and hbm stacks, mine was etched made in Korea iirc.

The reason for molding the package is to protect the interposer from scratches or damages that can occur for example when removing old thermal paste. Damaged interposer would mean damaged connections between core and memory, so bad.

Not that i know but i would guess that spilling liquid metal, or other electrically conductive thermalpastes/stuff on the interposer could short out the traces if the traces are layed bare at the surface, which i don't know, don't much want to find out either...
I thought it would be safer to mask up the interposer fully with regular thermalpaste (or paint/nailpolish/plastidip but i had a lot of thermalpaste laying around...
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 10:47 AM
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If the interposer is not completely covered I would not use LM. Another thing is that HBM and die are not always same height == LM is a bad choice to begin with unless your cooler is perfectly machined to match this difference.
Now LM does provide a temperature drop compared to regular paste on GPUs unlike some try to say it does not. Problem is the gaps on GPUs can be tricky to deal with especially something with HBMs and varying heights.
Another thing is that you NEED COPPER + NICKEL plated cold plate with no chance of spill over to any aluminium parts. If it's only nickel plated aluminium cold plate you're screwed, so screwed, yes these do unfortunately exist on many GPUs even today, damn cost saving manufacturers, every wondered why so many GPU coolers perform so bad... well now you know one part of the problem. If you're unsure about material of the cold plate and it uses heatpipes not a vapor chamber, then I would suggest taking a small drill and drilling into it on a corner/edge of it that's not used to contact to find out what the precise material actually is, if all you get is silver rubbish then it's aluminium.

With VEGA... if it's unmolded and of different heights you need regular paste to bridge the gap on HBMs. Even if it's same height but interposer is exposed I would not use LM.

If you have a direct heatpipes cooler with aluminium everywhere and not a perfect solid copper plate instead of heatpipes, again no LM.

Sadly LM has quite specific requirements for it to be used.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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okay, thank You very much Guys.
Now it makes sense for me, why unmolden is more dangerous!
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