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Liquid Metal paste on RX VEGA 64

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 01:50 AM
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The danger, or atleast fear of danger with the unmolded package is as far as i know if liquid metal comes in contact with the interposer, the thing which the core and hbm dies are connected to.

If the interposer has bare traces on the surface liquid metal shorting those would be bad.
Also, since the unmolded package has the core sitting higher than the hbm modules, i guess cooling on hbm modules would suffer if liquid metal is applied as per usual, very thin layer to both core and hbm.

I took the somewhat risky and at the same time safe approach of completely covering the interposer and smd components around the package with regular thermal paste so that only the surface of core and hbm stacks are visible.
Applied liquid metal as usual on core but on hbm i over applied the liquid metal, forming a small puddle on each hbm stack to try and get enough liquid metal to bridge the gap or height difference if you will to make contact with the waterblock.
If it worked or not or worth it i don't know but the hbm sits always at 2 degrees C above core temp...
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 03:12 AM
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I was thinking of LM for my Strix vega 56 but ended up going with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut for the die and HBM and Thermal Grizzly Minus Pad 8 for the VRMs ended up between 10-15c cooler on the lot. Definitely worth getting rid of the budget TIM and pads that are used.

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Spacebug View Post
The danger, or atleast fear of danger with the unmolded package is as far as i know if liquid metal comes in contact with the interposer, the thing which the core and hbm dies are connected to.

If the interposer has bare traces on the surface liquid metal shorting those would be bad.
Also, since the unmolded package has the core sitting higher than the hbm modules, i guess cooling on hbm modules would suffer if liquid metal is applied as per usual, very thin layer to both core and hbm.

I took the somewhat risky and at the same time safe approach of completely covering the interposer and smd components around the package with regular thermal paste so that only the surface of core and hbm stacks are visible.
Applied liquid metal as usual on core but on hbm i over applied the liquid metal, forming a small puddle on each hbm stack to try and get enough liquid metal to bridge the gap or height difference if you will to make contact with the waterblock.
If it worked or not or worth it i don't know but the hbm sits always at 2 degrees C above core temp...
okay, okay. I Fully understand what you mean.
But how can the Thermal Paste come to the Interposer?
As you can see, in the pictures.. or is the Interposer directly uncoverd in the slots...?
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 06:48 AM
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If I'm not mistaken, from the picture in your previous post, the copper colored area directly surrounding the core and hbm dies, which they sit upon/connected to are the interposer.
If you can see some copper or silicon colored surface directly under the core or hbm stacks, that is the interposer.
On my v64 package the interposer was visible all around the core and hbm stacks, mine was etched made in Korea iirc.

The reason for molding the package is to protect the interposer from scratches or damages that can occur for example when removing old thermal paste. Damaged interposer would mean damaged connections between core and memory, so bad.

Not that i know but i would guess that spilling liquid metal, or other electrically conductive thermalpastes/stuff on the interposer could short out the traces if the traces are layed bare at the surface, which i don't know, don't much want to find out either...
I thought it would be safer to mask up the interposer fully with regular thermalpaste (or paint/nailpolish/plastidip but i had a lot of thermalpaste laying around...
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 09:47 AM
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If the interposer is not completely covered I would not use LM. Another thing is that HBM and die are not always same height == LM is a bad choice to begin with unless your cooler is perfectly machined to match this difference.
Now LM does provide a temperature drop compared to regular paste on GPUs unlike some try to say it does not. Problem is the gaps on GPUs can be tricky to deal with especially something with HBMs and varying heights.
Another thing is that you NEED COPPER + NICKEL plated cold plate with no chance of spill over to any aluminium parts. If it's only nickel plated aluminium cold plate you're screwed, so screwed, yes these do unfortunately exist on many GPUs even today, damn cost saving manufacturers, every wondered why so many GPU coolers perform so bad... well now you know one part of the problem. If you're unsure about material of the cold plate and it uses heatpipes not a vapor chamber, then I would suggest taking a small drill and drilling into it on a corner/edge of it that's not used to contact to find out what the precise material actually is, if all you get is silver rubbish then it's aluminium.

With VEGA... if it's unmolded and of different heights you need regular paste to bridge the gap on HBMs. Even if it's same height but interposer is exposed I would not use LM.

If you have a direct heatpipes cooler with aluminium everywhere and not a perfect solid copper plate instead of heatpipes, again no LM.

Sadly LM has quite specific requirements for it to be used.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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okay, thank You very much Guys.
Now it makes sense for me, why unmolden is more dangerous!
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I applied yesterday Kryonaut on my Vega 64 and the results are very impressive!
Before I used Gelide GC Extreme, which is also a good thermal paste.
But the temps dropt again around 12°C with liquid metal paste. Thats sweet!
In the screens You can see the difference between Gelide and Kryonaut.
But I want to say, that the 61° with Gelide are more static while the 52° on
liquid metal a spike is. In AVG it has around 46-48°.
Results tested with 2 times Superposition Extreme on 350W consumption.

I applied nail color around the chip and in the gaps of the HBM and GPU I
put normal thermal paste between to cover it. Worked fine for me.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 11:28 AM
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liquid metal is great for bare die, but terrible for copper, or even nickle plating, though it takes much longer to damage nickle than copper.

the gallium content WILL pit your copper. (google how gallium works on the googles)

I've been using CLU for ages, but now only use them on bare dies. ( so no CPU IHS.) As the removal process will most likely remove the etching, which voids your warranty.

Just make sure you follow the directions. A TINY amount goes a long way. I used a drop the size of 1/4 of a grain of rice on my 1080ti dies, and it was more than enough.

it's conductive, so you gotta be super careful. It's pretty easy to cause a short, thus throwing the card into protect. I've dealt with this a couple times as well.

R.I.P. Zawarudo, may you OC angels' wings in heaven.
If something appears too good to be true, it probably is.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 12:40 PM
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yer, liquid copper paste on my block. i think about a year and a half of use.
im sticking to normal paste, and the liquid copper was terrible at transfer too.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 01:08 PM
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Liquid metal only stains the copper and gets inside the rough surface of nickel plating, it doesn't damage them nor does it change their physical properties. There can only be higher efficiency if you used liquid metal with liquid cooling, if it was worse then you screwed something up.


PS. Kryonaut is not a liquid metal.

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