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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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5700 / 5700XT AIB cooler discussion?

So since the 5700 series AIB now slowly releasing custom models, I think we should have a discussion thread on which is the best and also to compare prices.



Currently the Pulse is only slightly more expensive (~10$) and has great temps, but the PCB isn't reference:

XFX Thicc, good core cooling but memory cooling not handled properly: https://www.computerbase.de/2019-08/...t-thicc2-test/

ASUS technically has the best PCB but much more expensive (rumors say around 500 or close), bad memory cooling (same flaw as thicc):



Thoughts?

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 09:48 PM
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The Pulse is worth it, the STRIX isn't. As it (RX 5700XT) is not a top end GPU there's no reason to spend extra money on a 11 phase VRM with <250W power limit (225W per computerbase); the CPU + memory + and data on your drives isn't at stake by a motherboard failure it's just a GPU. Also power delivery for GPUs is usually actively cooled by GPU fan. Certainly not worth the rumored 100+ GBP premium (530 GBP vs 390) they were asking on OC UK.

The 7x SiC620A on Pulse is close to the 6x 70A powerstage on reference especially when you consider there's an additional powerstage. Fan speeds are tame and dual BIOS is available (1500RPM and 1000RPM per Gamersnexus but other sites have ~1700 and 1300rpm). For $10 , too.
https://www.vishay.com/docs/62922/sic620a.pdf
Peak efficiency ~94%

---> confirmation on powerstage : http://www.hwbattle.com/bbs/board.ph...ic&wr_id=11484

---> the fin orientation on Pulse is also superior for front to back airflow , GPU length 254mm

XFX THICC2 is probably using same Onsemi powerstage as on RAW2 , with no more than 7 powerstages so the use of reference design's 185W power limit is no surprise https://www.computerbase.de/2019-08/xfx-radeon-rx-5700-xt-thicc2-test/#bilder https://www.expreview.com/69809.html
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NCP302155-D.PDF
---> THICC2 is 295mm long per computerbase



MSI Evoke is shoddy in terms of fan speed at 2000RPM and so is ASUS STRIX. Evoke also has a weaker power delivery despite 250W power limit: 7x Onsemi NCP302155 , 55A powerstage . https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NCP302155-D.PDF
For 1V output peaks ~92% efficiency
---> supposedly $430 , 254mm length


MSI Mech OC seems to be below 800g total weight , 230mm length:
Spoiler!


Asrock Challenger seems to be using thicker 8mm heatpipes but no idea on the fin area or other cooling aspects (281mm length) ; power delivery is unknown as well. $410 retail.

Gigabyte Gaming OC looks to be using 80mm fans with 5 heatpipes as on RTX 2060 Super (4 heatpipe)/RTX 2070 (4 heatpipe) version. RTX 2070 Super (TU104) has 6 heatpipes. Will likely be mediocre due to direct touch heatpipe and 280mm length but is $420 which is probably more reasonable.

There's been no outright coverage on Powercolor but the base aftermarket model (Red Dragon likely) is supposed to be $399$410. The larger $440 Red Devil card (5 heatpipe design , 3x 85mm fan, with 2.5 slot cooler) has 10 Onsemi 302155 powerstage design but isn't able to overclock higher than MSI Evoke per HWUnboxed. The abundance of powerstages doesn't make up for the fact that the power limit is 185W and 225W , so higher efficiency powerstages are better IMO. Per Techpowerup & computerbase it's the quietest RX 5700XT (~1100RPM for quiet BIOS) at the expense of being huge at 305mm length.

Reference AMD design is using FDMF3170 Smart Powerstages which are 70A and up to 95% efficient with 6 phases interleaved https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/FDMF3170-D-1222701.pdf


Cards list: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-spec...-5700-xt.c3339 , https://videocardz.com/amd/radeon-rx...eon-rx-5700-xt

Best bet: Sapphire Pulse , with undervolt / tune for efficiency & to reduce fan speeds further.

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Last edited by AlphaC; 08-18-2019 at 04:57 PM. Reason: add Mech OC info
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
The Pulse is worth it, the STRIX isn't. As it (RX 5700XT) is not a top end GPU there's no reason to spend extra money on a 11 phase VRM with <250W power limit (225W per computerbase); the CPU + memory + and data on your drives isn't at stake by a motherboard failure it's just a GPU. Also power delivery for GPUs is usually actively cooled by GPU fan. Certainly not worth the rumored 100+ GBP premium (530 GBP vs 390) they were asking on OC UK.

The 7x SiC620A on Pulse is close to the 6x 70A powerstage on reference especially when you consider there's an additional powerstage. Fan speeds are tame and dual BIOS is available (1500RPM and 1000RPM per Gamersnexus but other sites have ~1700 and 1300rpm). For $10 , too.
https://www.vishay.com/docs/62922/sic620a.pdf
Peak efficiency ~94%


XFX THICC2 is probably using same Onsemi powerstage as on RAW2 , with no more than 7 powerstages https://www.computerbase.de/2019-08/xfx-radeon-rx-5700-xt-thicc2-test/#bilder https://www.expreview.com/69809.html
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NCP302155-D.PDF


MSI Evoke is shoddy in terms of fan speed at 2000RPM and so is ASUS STRIX. Evoke also has a weaker power delivery despite 250W power limit: 7x Onsemi NCP302155 , 55A powerstage . https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NCP302155-D.PDF
For 1V output peaks ~92% efficiency


Asrock Challenger seems to be using thicker 8mm heatpipes but no idea on the fin area or other cooling aspects ; power delivery is unknown as well.

Reference AMD design is using FDMF3170 Smart Powerstages which are 70A and up to 95% efficient with 6 phases interleaved https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/FDMF3170-D-1222701.pdf
I wonder if there's a reference pcb design with aib cooler?

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 11:45 AM
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The power colour red devil is the best card that I've seen so far. quiet, cool and cheaper than the strix model. given the cards all perform similarly and OC does next to nothing for frame rates you are buying for the looks and sound.

Waiting for the gigabyte gaming OC and the msi gaming card reviews before I buy one.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 05:29 PM
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Currently I think I'll be aiming to get the Red Devil. At $440 it is a bit more expensive than the Pulse, but it looks much better, is overbuilt and is quieter which is a fair trade off for the additional $30 for me. Only other cards I'd consider waiting to check out would be the MSI Gaming and Sapphire Nitro.

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 07:34 AM
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Seems the ones released are all using Micron GDDR6, I wonder if the rumored Nitro or any of the "premium" cards will use Samsung GDDR6

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 08:46 AM
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http://www.coolpc.com.tw/phpBB2/view...?f=71&t=262005

Gigabyte OC reviews up

It's 5 direct touch heatpipe (which severely gimps it) on the XT and the VRM and memory is completely cooled. Powerstages are Vishay sic632 (so it's better than Evoke as peak efficiency isn't 92% but closer to 93%) controlled by IR35217, capacitors FP 5K (Japanese). For RX5700 XT , Pulse is probably more worthwhile as it runs cooler and is cheaper.

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https://www.vishay.com/docs/62992/sic632a.pdf

Probably the one of the best RX 5700 non-XT as far as the heatsink / powerstages as the PCB just removes a power connector and a single inductor.
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Last edited by AlphaC; 08-24-2019 at 09:24 AM.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 09:42 AM
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I ended up getting the Sapphire, only had it a couple nights - so still bringing it through the testing.

For reference, I'm comparing it to my Red Dragon Vega 56.

First night I was able to stabilize temps to about 70 but the Junction was still like 87ish. Core clocks are great - getting high 2000's with 5% Power Limit. Didn't really get much higher, even if I put the Power Limit higher. The only thing that increased was the Junction - I was hitting 104ish. Wasn't cool with that!

My Red Dragon NEVER got that high, not even close..and people said Vega was hot....poppycock...My Vega is WAY cooler than Navi thus far.

Gaming performance was as expected, I tried the Radeon Image Sharpening (1440P 32 inch curved right in my face)..couldn't really tell.

Mining..I got XMR Stak to work after trying a few other programs. It compiled the algo, ran about 900ish hash/sec (compared to 1850 on my Vega and 1450 on my Ryzen 9)...but would quit after an hour or so...weird driver stuff I imagine.

So, given I have an 850 watt PSU - I figured. Let's go for broke and plug the Vega back in (was to go to my daughter for the rig I'm building her). YOLO, let's do it.

Well on full load, everything holds!!! My Kill-A-Watt should arrive today...my brother stole my old one...that will deserve it's own thread once I get it.

BUT......with the Dragon below the Pulse, both GPU and Junction temps have jumped...I should note my case is open, and I have enough fans (and an AIO).

GPU goes low 70's...but junction hovers between 96-103C. I tried placing a fan directly behind the rear of the Pulse (a lot of hot air comes out back and directly out front from the heat pipes). It didn't affect the temps...so back on the VRM for that fan (3900 on a X370...gotta take care of my VRM...ya know)

Just to be a jerk, I ran Heaven on the Navi and Mined on the Vega just to see if that affected the temps. A tiny bit - but nothing worth writing home about..changing things in Radeon settings seems to get finicky if you go to tweak your Navi - while Vega is doing it's thing...got a couple driver crashes there.

POINT IS...THE MERE FACT the second card is below it (Navi) seemed to raise the temp. It seems to not have the physical room enough with fresh enough cool air to get to where I was temp-wise the first night.

SECOND TAKE HOME - Navi is hot...inherently hot. MUCH hotter than my Vega or my Polaris's ever were. Am I uncomfortable with that? The Junction temps in the high 90's, low 100ish - yeah, I am to be honest. This is supposed to be 7nm and more efficient.

I'm at the point (especially after watching reviews on Gamer's Nexus etc.) to thinking maybe the TIM on the GPU wasn't good. I'm very tempted to take it apart and toss some IC Diamond on this thing...because my temps DO seem higher than most things I've seen. But my clocks (I forgot to mention 950 on mem all day long!!) are seemingly better than a lot I've seen out there, and I'm only on 5% PowerLimit (remember 10-15% Power wasn't yielding much better clocks). Mem temps and VRM is fine...well with what I expected (especially after seeing the GN tear down vid..they did an UNREAL job on the mem/VRM design!!)..

So it's just the GPU and Junctions that have me worried...do you guys think it's worth the tear down? Maybe I got good silicon but a bad TIM application?

Lastly, drivers do need to be more mature.....all in due time. I've also noticed stutter in-game that was NOT present in the Vega. Driver? Or HBM2 vs. GDDR6? It was pretty bad (on SOTTR bench and Apex AND couple times PUBG) - I'm guessing driver.

It's a pretty interesting card though. Sent my daughter a pic of it all in the rig, told her the Dragon must still mine (to help pay...no idle clocks in my rig, ever)...so new plan for her GPU!

Pic is first Heaven run this morning. Cool room (AC on), however long it took me to write this for length of time...Vega is sitting idle below it (not mining, just a behaving Dragon). Superposition ran a bit hotter, with lower clocks..higher clocks make me feel better though Temps are cooler this morning ...I did tweak the voltage curve as you can see...this seems to provide the best clocks with the lowest temps I've found so far.

Hope this helped guys!
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 02:20 PM
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RX 5700 non-XT video elucidates some things about the Mech OC and the Asrock Challenger. Basically cements Sapphire's status as best AMD GPU vendor.


Mech OC is using 4 direct touch heatpipes.
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Spoiler!





-----


Gaming X has a completely different memory cooling plate but doesn't fully cover the memory (probably due to keep out zone or something)
5x6mm and 1x8mm heatpipe cooler + backplate with thermal pads
8x TDA21232 powerstages for GPU core


https://www.igorslab.media/en/msi-rx...good-thirst/2/


https://www.techpowerup.com/review/m...aming-x/3.html

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Last edited by AlphaC; 09-11-2019 at 10:58 AM.
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