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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 01:29 AM
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Major RANT incoming...

Damnit. This is so sad to see. This right here, is why I still can't recommend AMD Cards to my customers. In a Pinch, when I just need a Video Card for 3 Screen Output or more, if I can't find a reasonably priced 1050 or 1050ti, which has happened quite a bit lately, I will go with an RX 560, and hope to god the newest drivers don't cause problems with the system.

I Love AMD Products, I want to be able to recommend their graphics cards. But outside of the enterprise sector (Where they are the only option for Sharing 1 Card across multiple VDI Sessions, without paying up the nose for licensing, and they have much more stable Drivers for the most part with these cards as well) their Software/Drivers are STILL causing major issues.

I still remember a client, who is a semi-popular streamer wanted a new card for his Son's system, this was at the end of 2018, he had a $200 budget for the card, so I recommended the RX 580, and that recommendation blew up in my face. AMD Released the new 2019 Driver package, and with it stability on that card blew out the window. Crazy things like booting up and having only 1 of 3 monitors work, or having them all have a green tint, or random game crashes that would crash the entire system.

I roll back the drivers to October of that year drivers, and all the sudden, no more problem, Stable as could be. I had his son stay on those drivers for damn near 5 months or so, until I think it was "The Division 2" came out, and his son wanted to play it but it refused to load on the old drivers. So I remoted in and gave permissions back to the AMD Folder that it extracts to to install drivers, and the game worked fine. About a month later new drivers came out, and he called me complaining that it was crashing all the time again. I finally just took the damn card back and gave him a GTX 1060 6GB I had in stock at the time, and now I use that card on one of my Test Benches where I can deal with its issues just by keeping that old 2018 driver installed.

Its good hardware, but CRAPPY, BUGGY, Drivers. They need to focus on that. Maybe start poaching from NVidia's Software team. It wasn't that long ago when the tables were turned and it was NVidia's drivers were crap, but they have since recovered from that, and its been pretty much 5 straight years of smooth sailing for their driver team other than a Security flaw here, or small Driver bug here that always seemed to get fixed within the next day. AMD's problems have been constant for 2 years now, and they were rocky before that.

This new hardware is good, and Big Navi might even end up being bigger. But even being someone who is a fan of their hardware, I might buy it and test it, but I just can't recommend it on the graphics side to customers until they step up and take care of these issues. Stop working on pointless Software "Features" and UI "Upgrades", we want stable drivers that are as reliable as your competitor, so I can comfortably recommend their damn cards to my clients, without having to get constant calls about graphic related issues that disappear the second I throw a 4 year old NVidia card in the system (and DDU of course, lol).

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 03:45 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by oreonutz View Post
Major RANT incoming...

Damnit. This is so sad to see. This right here, is why I still can't recommend AMD Cards to my customers. In a Pinch, when I just need a Video Card for 3 Screen Output or more, if I can't find a reasonably priced 1050 or 1050ti, which has happened quite a bit lately, I will go with an RX 560, and hope to god the newest drivers don't cause problems with the system.

I Love AMD Products, I want to be able to recommend their graphics cards. But outside of the enterprise sector (Where they are the only option for Sharing 1 Card across multiple VDI Sessions, without paying up the nose for licensing, and they have much more stable Drivers for the most part with these cards as well) their Software/Drivers are STILL causing major issues.

I still remember a client, who is a semi-popular streamer wanted a new card for his Son's system, this was at the end of 2018, he had a $200 budget for the card, so I recommended the RX 580, and that recommendation blew up in my face. AMD Released the new 2019 Driver package, and with it stability on that card blew out the window. Crazy things like booting up and having only 1 of 3 monitors work, or having them all have a green tint, or random game crashes that would crash the entire system.

I roll back the drivers to October of that year drivers, and all the sudden, no more problem, Stable as could be. I had his son stay on those drivers for damn near 5 months or so, until I think it was "The Division 2" came out, and his son wanted to play it but it refused to load on the old drivers. So I remoted in and gave permissions back to the AMD Folder that it extracts to to install drivers, and the game worked fine. About a month later new drivers came out, and he called me complaining that it was crashing all the time again. I finally just took the damn card back and gave him a GTX 1060 6GB I had in stock at the time, and now I use that card on one of my Test Benches where I can deal with its issues just by keeping that old 2018 driver installed.

Its good hardware, but CRAPPY, BUGGY, Drivers. They need to focus on that. Maybe start poaching from NVidia's Software team. It wasn't that long ago when the tables were turned and it was NVidia's drivers were crap, but they have since recovered from that, and its been pretty much 5 straight years of smooth sailing for their driver team other than a Security flaw here, or small Driver bug here that always seemed to get fixed within the next day. AMD's problems have been constant for 2 years now, and they were rocky before that.

This new hardware is good, and Big Navi might even end up being bigger. But even being someone who is a fan of their hardware, I might buy it and test it, but I just can't recommend it on the graphics side to customers until they step up and take care of these issues. Stop working on pointless Software "Features" and UI "Upgrades", we want stable drivers that are as reliable as your competitor, so I can comfortably recommend their damn cards to my clients, without having to get constant calls about graphic related issues that disappear the second I throw a 4 year old NVidia card in the system (and DDU of course, lol).
well i wouldnt call nvidia drivers perfect either however they are light years ahead of amd's thats for sure. i had 6 months long problem with nvidia drivers, starting from 400.00, onward, where my 1080ti in desktop would cause stutter issues while dragging icons across display, youtube would stutter, video playing or scrolling up and down, even older games would have horrible frame drops. problem was only on 144hz monitors, luck they fixed it, but i had to go through ticket writing, making video and what not.

ppl are switching from 5700XT to 2070s as well, main reason horrible drivers, even if AMD roll out flag ship that is cheaper and would beat next nvidia flagship, im not sure i would buy it, i dont wanna have driver lottery that works here and not there constantly. we are not beta testers. i imagine its pain in the ass having ppl calling you all the time oh oh its not working anymore, they should learn to switch drivers themselfs as well, i mean if you use pc and want to game on it, maybe its time to learn how to switch drivers as well, i mean thats not ur job, hardware you sold em is not broken, just software for it is not great, and that is not really ur issue or job to fix it. imagine they start calling you for win10 issues as well i mean, xD

Last edited by Zfast4y0u; 02-08-2020 at 03:50 AM.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 12:11 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Zfast4y0u View Post
well i wouldnt call nvidia drivers perfect either however they are light years ahead of amd's thats for sure. i had 6 months long problem with nvidia drivers, starting from 400.00, onward, where my 1080ti in desktop would cause stutter issues while dragging icons across display, youtube would stutter, video playing or scrolling up and down, even older games would have horrible frame drops. problem was only on 144hz monitors, luck they fixed it, but i had to go through ticket writing, making video and what not.

ppl are switching from 5700XT to 2070s as well, main reason horrible drivers, even if AMD roll out flag ship that is cheaper and would beat next nvidia flagship, im not sure i would buy it, i dont wanna have driver lottery that works here and not there constantly. we are not beta testers. i imagine its pain in the ass having ppl calling you all the time oh oh its not working anymore, they should learn to switch drivers themselfs as well, i mean if you use pc and want to game on it, maybe its time to learn how to switch drivers as well, i mean thats not ur job, hardware you sold em is not broken, just software for it is not great, and that is not really ur issue or job to fix it. imagine they start calling you for win10 issues as well i mean, xD
You are absolutely right! NVidia drivers are FAR from perfect, and in certain scenarios have caused me pain as well, so I probably should have worded that better.

Another Major Rant Incoming, this time I will stick it in a Spoiler in an effort not to take up the entire page, lol.:
Spoiler!


Thanks for a thoughtful response @Zfast4y0u ! I enjoyed reading it!

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Good news

Games aren't crashing

Bad news

Temps still between 85 and 90 degrees at full load

From reading the comments, I gather most 5700XT run very hot. I went to an older driver from early December, as opposed to the latest. I also did a clean install by using DDU. No more crashes or black screens.

However, I'm still in a conundrum. I put a return in to Amazon. I'm not sure if I should go through it. I was going to replace this MSI Mech for either a Sapphire 5700XT or 2060 Super. I don't expect anyone in an AMD forum to recommend the green one. So should I return for the Sapphire Pulse or keep what I have.

It runs very well in terms of performance. I was playing DMC5 and no hiccups at 1080P 144hz. But the temps really concern me. I hate having to go without a video card for a few days, but if it means getting cooler temps, it might be worth it. This goes back to my original question. I don't believe the card is damaged, it's more the drivers and 5700's tendency to run hot. With that known, should I still return. Thanks.

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 03:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by mooch49 View Post
Good news

Games aren't crashing

Bad news

Temps still between 85 and 90 degrees at full load

From reading the comments, I gather most 5700XT run very hot. I went to an older driver from early December, as opposed to the latest. I also did a clean install by using DDU. No more crashes or black screens.

However, I'm still in a conundrum. I put a return in to Amazon. I'm not sure if I should go through it. I was going to replace this MSI Mech for either a Sapphire 5700XT or 2060 Super. I don't expect anyone in an AMD forum to recommend the green one. So should I return for the Sapphire Pulse or keep what I have.

It runs very well in terms of performance. I was playing DMC5 and no hiccups at 1080P 144hz. But the temps really concern me. I hate having to go without a video card for a few days, but if it means getting cooler temps, it might be worth it. This goes back to my original question. I don't believe the card is damaged, it's more the drivers and 5700's tendency to run hot. With that known, should I still return. Thanks.

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What temps are between 85-90? If that's the junction temperature than that's fine up to 110c. nVidia cards don't show the junction temperature so you can't really say RDNA runs hotter than nVidia cards. Vega definitely did run hotter.

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
What temps are between 85-90? If that's the junction temperature than that's fine up to 110c. nVidia cards don't show the junction temperature so you can't really say RDNA runs hotter than nVidia cards. Vega definitely did run hotter.
The card I guess. I'm going by the temps in game from Radeon measurements. Fan runs 3000rpm, gpu load is near 100 percent. This was playing DMC5.

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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This is through 15 minutes of playing


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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 04:09 PM
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I haven't bought an AMD card for my main rig since the 7870 pretty much because I don't like dealing with AMD's drivers.

Radeon VII was a disaster on launch if you could even find one, Vega was a disaster on launch because it was overpriced due to mining, and Polaris under performed for at least a solid year. At launch the 1060 beat the 580 in most titles and now it's hard to find a game that a 1060 wins in (and in most the 580 destroys the 1060, in RDR2 the 580 is 25% faster).

deal with possibly garbage drivers for ~year or pay the NVIDIA tax, pick your poison

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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 04:57 PM
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That is high for that card. What does your case airflow look like? A lot of AMD GPUs are overvotes by quite a bit. See if you can undervolt your card.

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 06:12 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by mooch49 View Post
What is that exactly? I'm new to AMD cards.

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Oh. Right-click desktop "AMD Options" or whatever, navigate to "Global Wattman" and set your "power limit" to +5%

Or download MSI Afterburner and use that.

I have to do the latter because I stripped out all that hot garbage AMD bundled with their driver.
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