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[Official] NVIDIA RTX 2080 Ti Owner's Club

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post #11261 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 09:52 PM
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Maybe water cooling will become standard when chips hit their 3nm size limit as mentioned above. I remember back in the day, having $350 graphics card for 5 years then upgrading to the top level card that cost $650 and was blown away and then held onto that card for 5 years. Their products held their value long after release. Even the 1080 ti (before the bitcoin craze) was a good value. Should've kept the one I had.

Side note/question:
Anyone experience this thermal throttling with the card under water? I have my curve set to start at [email protected] so that when the temp hits 40c it drops to 2085mhz which is where I want it. Works most of the time but then there are times where two issues arise. First one is when the clock will drop to the next lower step but the voltage does not. Second, the clock does not drop at all and thus becomes unstable then crash. Is there any way possible to force the card to absolutely never change the frequency set by the user? Or is GPU Boost the ultimate decider?

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post #11262 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 12:36 AM
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Unless you run some LN2 bios and special control software on cards like the KingPin or Galax HoF OCL, I think NVidia GPU boost is as controlling as 'nurse Ratched' in one flew over the cuckoo's nest

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post #11263 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 01:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post
Did you already purchase the Heatkiller IV block as well ? If so, I would probably keep the Asus 2080 Ti Turbo, but if not, it would be a tough call at 50/50.

While Ampere (consumer) cards are expected to drop sometime in the fall, the previous gen (Turing RTX) launch certainly did not go smoothly, never mind early breakages due to 'test escapes'...may be waiting a bit after 'official availability' of the first Ampere consumer cards is not such a bad approach. Then there's the question of not only the delay between 'paper launch' and actual consumer availability at M$RP, but also the sequences of launch...for example "3080", then "3080 Ti" then "Titan Ampere"...perhaps that gets Ampere closer to the Christmas holiday season, depending which one you want. Finally, re. for example "3080 Ti", NVidia is likely to do their own FE fir$t for a bit, before custom PCB versions by vendors arrive. Another factor to consider is what big Navi' will bring from AMD around a similar time frame. As others stated, depending on your use case, a well cooled non-A 2080 Ti could keep you happy for quite a while until either Ampere and/or big Navi are available in reasonable quantities and flavours / prices.
Quote: Originally Posted by rustyk View Post
If you're going to chuck a load of money at a 2080TI now, trying to max performance, it's probably a bad time.
What are you actually trying to achieve and what's your use case? Depending on what you paid, it might make sense to keep it, use it and get the benefit now, then sell and upgrade at the appropriate time.

A friend of mine bought a non-A 2080, watercooled it and was still getting significant benefits from the lower temps and boost algorithms, even with the inherent power limitations.
Thank you both. I will just keep it for now and upgrade probably only in two years or so, probably skip the Ampere release.
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post #11264 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 08:22 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Laithan View Post
I think the leaks in that YouTube video are likely true. From a business perspective it has to be considerably faster than the 2080Ti or it would be a flop. It will certainly drive the prices of a 2080Ti down and this should be helpful for the 4K community overall. I'm satisfied with my 2080Ti especially when it sounds like $1400+ custom designs all over again for 3080Ti. That price point is difficult to get excited about (minus the mining craze).

Until next gen console ports arrive. You're gonna want the RT and dev's will push the hardware @30fps/4k. We're gonna need better tech. Metro: E and RDR2 already pushing our cards to their knees. I do agree with the pricing, considering Nvidia will most likely come out first. There is no incentive for them to lower $, if the performance is insane. We will buy it.


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post #11265 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 09:06 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post
Unless you run some LN2 bios and special control software on cards like the KingPin or Galax HoF OCL, I think NVidia GPU boost is as controlling as 'nurse Ratched' in one flew over the cuckoo's nest
Even the KINGPIN is susceptible to GPU boost algorithm. When I talked to Vince about it he said they were able to disable GPU boost but it would throw the card into weird modes that made the card not function properly.

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post #11266 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 09:15 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sultanofswing View Post
Even the KINGPIN is susceptible to GPU boost algorithm. When I talked to Vince about it he said they were able to disable GPU boost but it would throw the card into weird modes that made the card not function properly.
SO true. I tried the KP XOC bios and it did the same exact thing as normal bios. Temp hits 39-40c, drop a clock step. It must be inherent and deeply hard coded into the chip itself which is probably why Vince had issues when he disabled it.

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post #11267 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 10:23 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by kithylin View Post
Actually that's not true. Nvidia has released other video cards in the past where the top spec card of the new family is only +30% faster than the top spec card of the previous family (not including Titans) and they sold very well and they were released as a retail product. It is entirely possible based on the history of Nvidia products in the past that the new Ampere video cards could possibly only be +25% to +30% faster than Turing and still be sold as a successful product and be very profitable for the company. It does not have to be "50% faster" for Nvidia. They have no competition at the high end right now (As of typing this) and their new Ampere video cards will have zero competition on the high end when they release a few months from now. A smart thing to do from the business perspective would be to release new products only as fast over the previous one that people are willing to pay for. I'm sure if Nvidia wanted to do it they could release a card that is just +15% faster or +20% faster for first generation 7nm cards (Ampere) then the other +20% faster for the next family of 7nm (revised) products to milk more money out of their customers. There's really no reason to give us a single card that's all +40% faster in one gulp if they could split it up across two families for more profit. They may not do that this time around but as we get closer and closer to the physical limitations of silicon when they can't shrink chips any further (it's currently physically impossible to produce anything CPU, GPU, or Memory beyond 3nm for example) they'll have to stretch out their profits thinner and thinner at some point.
Except for Turing and Kepler refresh (GTX 780, same architecture) when did this happen? Going back until Fermi the generational leap has been 50%.

GTX 680, 50% faster than 580, as fast as 580 SLI
GTX 980, 50% faster than 780, as fast as 780 SLI
GTX 1080, 50% faster than 980, as fast as 980 SLI

GTX 980 Ti, 50% faster than 780 Ti, as fast as 780 Ti SLI
GTX 1080 Ti, 60% faster than 980 Ti, as fast as 980 Ti SLI

GTX 970, as fast as 780 Ti @ 200W
GTX 1070, as fast as 980 Ti @ 200W


With exception of of GTX 970, 980, 1070 and 1080 I've owned all of the cards in question (GTX 580M SLI and GTX 680M SLI).

Turing is anomalous because NGreedia renamed the entire product stack one GPU higher in an attempt to justify an actual doubling in asking price. FACT.

Example:

RTX "2070", TU-106 SKU (60 card SKU), no SLI (every 70 card up until here has had SLI, no 60 card has had SLI), only as fast as outgoing 80 card, not the 80 Ti card like every new 70 card before it. MSRP: $600, historical price of 60 card: $350
RTX "2080", only as fast as the outgoing 80 Ti card, not 25-30% faster like every new 80 card before it: $900, historical price of 70 card: $450
RTX "2080 Ti" see above. $1200 before taxes, historical price of 80 card: $600

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post #11268 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 12:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by sultanofswing View Post
Even the KINGPIN is susceptible to GPU boost algorithm. When I talked to Vince about it he said they were able to disable GPU boost but it would throw the card into weird modes that made the card not function properly.
Quote: Originally Posted by gfunkernaught View Post
SO true. I tried the KP XOC bios and it did the same exact thing as normal bios. Temp hits 39-40c, drop a clock step. It must be inherent and deeply hard coded into the chip itself which is probably why Vince had issues when he disabled it.

Yeah, Nvidia boost algorithm is pretty much baked in. I did see a blog post elsewhere re. the old "K-boost" where this came up re. a Galax HoF OCL w/ custom software with pretty much the same (non-) result. In the old days, per Anandtech, " K-Boost disables all of the power saving features that current video cards use... The major benefit of K-Boost is to help remove the sudden drops in voltage and clock speeds that happen dynamically when stressing video cards

...I still get best overall results with leaving my 2080 Tis completely alone (stock Bios), and just using the MHz and PL sliders in MSI AB and without touching the voltage slider

For those who know who nurse Ratched is...
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post #11269 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 01:56 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mooncheese View Post
Turing is anomalous because NGreedia renamed the entire product stack one GPU higher in an attempt to justify an actual doubling in asking price. FACT.

Example:

RTX "2070", TU-106 SKU (60 card SKU), no SLI (every 70 card up until here has had SLI, no 60 card has had SLI), only as fast as outgoing 80 card, not the 80 Ti card like every new 70 card before it. MSRP: $600, historical price of 60 card: $350
RTX "2080", only as fast as the outgoing 80 Ti card, not 25-30% faster like every new 80 card before it: $900, historical price of 70 card: $450
RTX "2080 Ti" see above. $1200 before taxes, historical price of 80 card: $600
A publicly traded company (legally required to try to create value for their shareholders) realized they could sell their products for more money so they did. Shocking! What scum!

Nvidia is not a public benefit corporation. Trying to shame them into lowering their prices is not going to work, that takes competition. How do you want the world to work? Should we implement price controls on GPUs now?

This moral outrage over prices is pretty ridiculous, like we are all somehow entitled to relatively cheap GPUs. Don't like the price don't buy it but this moral outrage just reeks of misplaced entitlement. Also, you are weirdly extrapolating from a few releases, "it was like this three times in a row so it must always be like this!" The world changes, things won't always happen the same way and you are not entitled to a GPU X% better for the same price every two years just because it happened a few times in a row.

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post #11270 of 11303 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 03:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
A publicly traded company (legally required to try to create value for their shareholders) realized they could sell their products for more money so they did. Shocking! What scum!

Nvidia is not a public benefit corporation. Trying to shame them into lowering their prices is not going to work, that takes competition. How do you want the world to work? Should we implement price controls on GPUs now?

This moral outrage over prices is pretty ridiculous, like we are all somehow entitled to relatively cheap GPUs. Don't like the price don't buy it but this moral outrage just reeks of misplaced entitlement. Also, you are weirdly extrapolating from a few releases, "it was like this three times in a row so it must always be like this!" The world changes, things won't always happen the same way and you are not entitled to a GPU X% better for the same price every two years just because it happened a few times in a row.
I don't see anyone saying those things. The history of why GPU prices were driven far beyond the accepted normal up cannot be ignored and must be part of the equation. The mining craze was THE reason GPU prices inflated beyond "reasonable" and had nothing to do with R&D, fabrication or cost of production... The way I see it, the only thing that the majority of the public view had in the area of expectations was simply the return of normal pricing as the GPU mining craze came to an end. As we know this did not occur and this reason alone with no other influences or external bearings is enough to define a reasonable expectation. There's no question that shareholders appreciated the mining craze... but NVIDIA keeping GPU prices inflated despite the mining craze being over is where I would direct the moral criticism. Many might define this as corporate greed and others just a profitable business decision but at the end of the day PC Gaming as a whole becomes more and more threatened when consoles are giving you ENTIRE SYSTEMS for less than the price of just the GPU on PC. If that's not alarming I'm not sure what is.

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