[UFD Tech]Why Nvidia Doesn't Want You To Buy The 20-Series - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[UFD Tech]Why Nvidia Doesn't Want You To Buy The 20-Series

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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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[UFD Tech]Why Nvidia Doesn't Want You To Buy The 20-Series

Why Nvidia Doesn't Want You To Buy The 20-Series


So, his assertion is that NVIDIA is sitting on a massive stockpile of 10 series chips thanks to the collapse of crypto and wants to liquidate them. In order to that, they have deliberately overpriced the 20-series to make their existing 10-series the value-leader on account of AMD's complete consumer-side failure with Vega. FUrthermore, he thinks that NVIDIA will actually launch a 7nm series next year to replace the 20-series making the 20-series the shortest NVIDIA GPU flagship ever.

I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid... and I went ahead anyway.

If it's not coming out for the PC, it's dead to me.
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 06:23 PM
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It's not a far-fetched theory. It was a theory that many shared when Turing was announced. It honestly makes a lot of sense. That's why RTX 2070s are priced similarly to GTX 1080s and RTX 2080s are priced similarly to GTX 1080 Tis.

I fully expect Nvidia to release 7nm GPUs next year, probably Q4. Some thought Turing would be 7nm.

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 07:08 PM
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Nvidia needed to launch Turing this year to get developers to start developing for RTX, because, as we're seeing, it doesn't happen overnight, even if the only card that can scrape by is the 2080 Ti, but for developers neither the price nor the performance are a problem, they'll just buy two and use them in SLI to predict what will be available on 7nm. And many of them will go for the Quadro versions.

So in that regard, he missed that point, Nvidia didn't just release Turing to quell the thirst for new cards, they wanted to get RTX on the market ahead of anything AMD could do next year.

They didn't pitch 2 Quadro RTX 8000 cards on Gamescom for nothing. This release is mainly for developers:

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 07:09 PM
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I have no issue with his assertion. The question or better yet, missing piece is was why Nvidia released Turing when it wasn't ready yet and IMO will be shorted lived as it's replaced with 7nm?

Two theories comes to mind:
1. They know what AMD is bringing to the market and want to be 1st.
2. They struck out on 7nm priority with TMSC until late 2019.

In either case, it is a 1st for Nvidia not to EOL their prior gen part after releasing the next gen part. Although I have to wonder what their Geforce Department is going to with the 10 series in regards to new released games. As they now literately have double the work to do until the 10 series is finally announced as EOL (any links on that yet?).
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 07:25 PM
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I really 7nm Turing is the one that will offer the true one generational leap performance at the original MSRP or close.


RTX 3080 will be about $799 and faster than RTX 2080 Ti by 10-15% at least.

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 08:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by chessmyantidrug View Post
It's not a far-fetched theory. It was a theory that many shared when Turing was announced. It honestly makes a lot of sense. That's why RTX 2070s are priced similarly to GTX 1080s and RTX 2080s are priced similarly to GTX 1080 Tis.

I fully expect Nvidia to release 7nm GPUs next year, probably Q4. Some thought Turing would be 7nm.
Stop using "7nm" like it means something. It's just the accuracy of the photolithography process and has nothing to do with the actual circuitry inside the chips themselves.

We HAVE NO 7nm "process" at this time. Intel can't even make their 10nm function outside a laboratory or on more than single core devices. There's some kind of "new" power-factor radio frequency interference occurring inside the devices that makes it impossible to stabilize them using current microarchitecture protocol.

On top of that the "7nm" is a lie in that it uses multi-angle printing techniques to approximate the granularity of 7nm dimensional results but simply will never be able to print actual 7nm structures with any precision.

It is simply a trademark-like-name for the methodology used to photoprint. The deep issue here is that we don't have the ability to reliably mass produce the necessary wavelength emitting systems in order to do the printing all the way down there. As intel themselves said, "there isn't enough light".
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 08:31 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by prjindigo View Post
Stop using "7nm" like it means something. It's just the accuracy of the photolithography process and has nothing to do with the actual circuitry inside the chips themselves.

We HAVE NO 7nm "process" at this time. Intel can't even make their 10nm function outside a laboratory or on more than single core devices. There's some kind of "new" power-factor radio frequency interference occurring inside the devices that makes it impossible to stabilize them using current microarchitecture protocol.

On top of that the "7nm" is a lie in that it uses multi-angle printing techniques to approximate the granularity of 7nm dimensional results but simply will never be able to print actual 7nm structures with any precision.

It is simply a trademark-like-name for the methodology used to photoprint. The deep issue here is that we don't have the ability to reliably mass produce the necessary wavelength emitting systems in order to do the printing all the way down there. As intel themselves said, "there isn't enough light".
Your facts are correct, but your post is unhelpful. TSMC is selling a "7 nm" product, which is what everyone is referring to. It does mean something. Few consumers actually care about the size of the transistors; if the product provides more density and higher clock speeds (relative to a "larger" node) then they're happy.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 09:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by moldyviolinist View Post
Your facts are correct, but your post is unhelpful. TSMC is selling a "7 nm" product, which is what everyone is referring to. It does mean something. Few consumers actually care about the size of the transistors; if the product provides more density and higher clock speeds (relative to a "larger" node) then they're happy.
But I think you are missing the point.

The expectations of a 7nm higher dense higher clocks might be very far from the reality of what it will actually be. We all expect it to be better, but it might not be as good as people think. You think that 7nm is just half as the 14nm so it must be more dense, must give higher clocks, but it might also not be, because of the issues of the manufacturing.

It might as well be a barely increase, and a more updated process of the latest best 14nm/12nm manufacturing.


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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 10:19 PM
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I am in contact with Hong Kong retailers and distributors and there is not a single 1080 Ti in stock.

Nvidia discontinued everything above 1060.

Not sure the massive stockpile theory makes any sense.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 02:56 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by King Louie View Post
I am in contact with Hong Kong retailers and distributors and there is not a single 1080 Ti in stock.

Nvidia discontinued everything above 1060.

Not sure the massive stockpile theory makes any sense.
There is still stock around. I wouldn't know about HK.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It makes sense that the pricing, as many had thought on release, is supposed to play a role in clearing old Pascal stock, but it's also plausible that it's simply a way to get more profit per unit sold by taking advantage of the lack of competition at the very high end. And, from a technical point of view, the dies themselves are more costly to produce.

In any case, after the hype has died down a little, it's getting harder to justify displacing the amount of money they're asking for more conservatively spending consumers like myself. It really is looking like a gen to skip. The alternative is now a temporary Pascal upgrade, but even the 1080ti's they'd, hypothetically, want to get rid of are priced sky high right now due to current demand.

There's, really no way to win till AMD starts competing again in every segment.

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Last edited by ToTheSun!; 10-18-2018 at 09:41 AM.
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