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[Various] "Some" Reviewers Give Negative Bias towards Navi auth. by Nvidia

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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 08:04 PM
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Personally, my view on Navi is optimistic. I think it's a good card and the 5700 will be a good upgrade for me from my ROG STRIX RX 480, but yeah waiting for custom cards. I want a triple fan cooler at least.

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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 08:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
Personally, my view on Navi is optimistic. I think it's a good card and the 5700 will be a good upgrade for me from my ROG STRIX RX 480, but yeah waiting for custom cards. I want a triple fan cooler at least.
This is kinda my issue. We've been shafted as consumers. We should be able to reasonably upgrade after a few revisions to the same level card for the same price. Evidently this is no longer a thing. All I want is a Whisker-do!

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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 09:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Rocklin View Post
Back when they were ATI cards, things seemed better. Driver releases were competitive.

AMD mostly treats GPU's like an inferior loss leader nowadays; cost above quality.
AMD is a smaller company than nvidia and has to compete with intel as well. They are overmatched on both fronts. They have a great success with ryzen; of course they will focus more there right now, but that doesn't mean navi isn't good. Also the team up with samsung could be huge.
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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 11:12 PM
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What grinds my gears is reviewers saying, well in every way price vs performance the navi cards win, but they don't have rt... Who would choose to rt on a 2060 or 2060 S? Wouldn't you rather go to 2k or raise any other setting? Eye candy vs fps drop makes it completely unusable. I know the drivers have issues, I agree but the rt argument is well it grinds my gears.

The blower sucks but despite being hotter, they still have a 10%+ fps gain over each nvidia card at the same price.
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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 11:43 PM
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Not the first time AMD is launching a product without the full feature set of the competition.

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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 12:06 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
Need to spend less time on youtube and more time on reputable reviewers' sites such as tomshw.de (IgorsLab) where they have Navi at 2.2GHz , Techspot , and Computerbase. Most Asian sites also give Navi a fair assessment. The problem is those YouTube people need to make sensational stories to get clicks.

Anyway, their argument is the tech press isn't giving Navi a fair assessment. If you look at the numbers the Navi RX 5700 XT performs roughly on par with RTX 2070 Super for $100 less and the RX 5700 is on par with RTX 2060 Super. Once you add in $50 for an aftermarket cooler the price/performance numbers skew towards Nvidia. The raytracing and tensor cores also skew towards Nvidia.

The issue with Radeon Anti-lag and Image sharpening is that it hasn't been thoroughly tested yet and Anti-lag is supposedly coming to Vega and older GCN cards. RTX cores are still RTX card exclusive , even if it is just Nvidia branding for DXR acceleration oriented cores.

Until we get partner cards I'd say the assessment of Navi is fair. It is unreasonable to expect people to put up with ineffective blowers that in some cases stall the card (LinusTechTips) or just make it run hotter than it should. When Sapphire Nitro+ / VaporX, XFX, Powercolor , Asrock Phantom Gaming X, MSI Gaming X / EVOKE / ARMOR cards, ASUS STRIX, and Gigabyte AORUS cards come along and they STILL have the same assessment that Navi is not a great purchase then I'd probably reevaluate where I'm reading reviews.
I think Bits and Chips hit the nail on the the head.
"In order to have reviews more reliable, with results replicable even by the users, we want to ask you: would you agree to create a shared and understandable model of chart where sites list the software and the hardware used in their reviews?

One reviewer getting 85 FPS while another achieving 131 FPS that is a big performance delta and shouldn't be ignored. Tech journalists can do better than this.

I believe that Radeon Anti-Lag is already available to [all] GCN based cards on 19.7.1 but more testing has to be done. At least it is enabled on my Fury card. RIS (Radeon Image Sharpening) is enabled on new API's (DX12 and Vulkan) as well as DX9 since it was easy for AMD to enable it.

Anti-Lag test -

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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 12:07 AM
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Not surprised to see Hardware Canucks here. It's been a shill forever now.

Do you remember that it used to publish written reviews? Well, not anymore.


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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 12:16 AM
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It's just a bad time to buy a new GPU in general. Navi doesn't offer anything to most PC gamers because most PC gamers have upgraded there GPU sometimes in the last 3 years and are already have a pretty decent GPU. I don't know anyone gaming on anything less than a 1060 now, and most of my gaming friends have a 1070, 1080, or a 1080ti. None of them have a 2000 series GPU because there is just no good reason to upgrade from a 1070+ to a 2000 series card, and likewise with Navi. Navi would be a decent choice for someone making a new PC and looking for a decent mid range GPU, but it wouldn't really be a compelling choice, just a decent choice. It's a very average line up of GPUs compared to what is out and what has been out. The GPU market has slowed so much that most PC gamers are just already too well situated for anything new to really matter since nothing new is giving us anything we didn't already have, unless gamers want to pay a lot for first gen overpriced and underperforming RT which clearly most PC gamers do not want to do. For anyone who is looking to spend less than $800 on a GPU, RT makes no sense and Navi is no better or worse than what Nvidia has at similar prices.

So, decent GPU just not much reason for anyone to buy it.

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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 12:16 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post
Not the first time AMD is launching a product without the full feature set of the competition.
Still waiting for that magical async compute driver for my 980 Ti.

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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 12:31 AM
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First of all, this isn't news, it doesn't even qualify as rumour. It's just Youtube commentators putting forth insinuations and not backing them up. A lot of "Nvidia is behind the scenes as usual" and then they say exactly nothing to back it up. Zero.

The Navi reviews are weird? Why? Let's get one thing out of the way: AMD's Navi architecture is not as exciting as Zen 2, it simply isn't, I don't understand how Good Old Gamer can say the exact opposite, he just needs to look at the stats to know the facts. Moore's Law is Dead also doesn't understand or pretends not to, that Navi's 2.0 die size with ray tracing hardware will also be bigger, but instead prefers to convey that Turing on 7nm would still be bigger than Navi. And he makes a bunch of false claims, like Fermi was not as good as AMD's GPU arch of the time, it's false, the GTX 480 just had a terrible cooler, just like the 290X. When AMD had to catch up to Fermi 1.1 (aka GTX 580), AMD's power efficiency with the HD 6970 also went out of the door, and the GTX 580 was the fastest card of its generation, with a 244w TDP vs 250w TDP of the HD 6970. And come on, the Phenom II was a good deal, especially Thuban, but it didn't have the same performance as Intel.

Anyway, we know that Navi is architecturally behind Nvidia's Turing. It's 7nm that is allowing AMD to make the Navi cards in the first place, otherwise on 12nm their board power would go out of the window. 12nm is a cheaper process, Nvidia knows that and is using it, while AMD, being the small company that it is, would be using it too if it was feasible to deliver Navi with it, but it isn't. In order for Navi to be as good an arch as Turing in rasterization performance, the RX 5700 XT at $399 should be performing on par with an RTX 2080 Ti, while using 150w.

Then, as I said in another post, you only get one chance to make a first good impression and AMD's Radeon group still doesn't understand this simple fact of life after all these years. They made beginner's mistakes with the R9 290X ("Uber" loud switch with a crappy cooler to beat the Titan), the Fury X (an "overclocker's dream"), the RX 480 (exceeding PCIe compliance power draw on the card slot), Vega 64 (obscene power draw vs the 1080) and now Navi, which is late and overpriced like Nvidia, even with last minute price cuts - also because proper open air cooler versions from AIB's are still not factored in the prices, same undervolting talk as Vega. The media engine, according to the LTT review, produces poor results, and the cooler, in order to not be as loud as before (but still loud), was hamstrung and now the cards get super hot, like Criminal already mentioned from his personal Navi experience in another thread, and in the case of LTT, even produces a system shutdown.

AMD needs to think long and hard why their GPUs are seen as second rate. Even when they have a good card like the R9 290X, they make beginner's mistakes with it.

Anyway, even Good Old Gamer says that AMD's marketing is terrible, yes, yes it is, but marketing is not only about publicity, it's about how you go and plan a product that people will want to buy.

And that brings us to Scott Herkelman, who, due to the backlash on the cooler, is now liking the open air cooler more on launch. Well, they should have done that, now it's only going to happen with Navi 2.0, so again one step behind Nvidia:


But the feedback over the past few weeks has been really good for us to read. Going forward:

1). If blower design are used also offer dual/tri-axial options at launch for the enthusiasts. I like this idea.

In any case, as I said before, these two GPU generations are experimental, uncooked, from both Nvidia and AMD and are thus a pass. Samsung 7nm EUV / TSMC 6nm is where it's at.

We are currently having x60 - x70 performance class tier for $399(+) from both camps, after a long time after the previous gen, even more so for AMD. So no, Navi isn't great value, it's just slightly better than Nvidia's Super series and that isn't saying much. With Navi you're simply getting in 2019 the level of price/performance improvement that we should have gotten last year, and don't forget to add some money to get an AIB card with a proper cooler in mid-August / September, so it's actually $399+, making the actual cost difference between AMD's Navi and Nvidia's Super smaller than it appears right now.

If anything, GPU reviewers are saying good things about both Super and Navi without emphasizing that they are both overpriced and thus consumers will not be getting as good of a deal as they were in the past and hopefully will in the future given that 7nm EUV and similar nodes will simplify and speed up the design process, improve yields and generally make things less expensive.

Last edited by tpi2007; 07-12-2019 at 01:11 AM.
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