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post #181 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obyboby View Post

Unbelievable...still can't get past 1455. *** is wrong with my card???

I have to say though, that I'm not flashing your BIOS straight on the card. Since the original BIOS in my card was F50, I'm copyig the value into that because you have F3 and I'm afraid it will mess things up if I just flashed it straight away on my vga. Thoughts? I'm exhausted and heading off to bed now, perhaps I will come up with a solution tomorrow. xD

EDIT: so I was just browsing some threads here on the board and then decided to shut down my PC..I proceed to close Chrome, head over to Afterburner to close that as well.. and what do I see? 1531 MHz core. What?? I immediately start a test with Kombustor and the clock goes back to 1455. This is driving me crazy..

Correct, you don't want to flash my BIOS directly unless you use the F3 BIOS.

I am starting to wonder if you have a faulty VRM or something hardware related with the card itself also. Sounds like it works sometimes and other times it doesn't. Perhaps based on the load you put on the GPU and then all of a sudden you lose voltage and the boost clocks drop. Do you have a friend's PC or 2nd PC you could install your card into just as a test? It would be interesting to see if you can duplicate the problem on another PC.

I made you another test BIOS, this one is a bit more aggressive. This BIOS will not give you any control over the voltage. The voltage slider in MSI AB will go up to +100 but it will also go into the negative. I am pretty certain that under this configuration the voltage slider in MSI AB doesn't do anything and the card will pretty much always be max voltage under load. I also lowered the boost clock table and made the respective changes in the other areas of the BIOS (common, boost table and boost states). This means in the event that 1531 was too aggressive for your card and it was simply a poor overclocker, reducing it down to 1481 should be much easier to reach.

You WILL still need to max out the power % slider in MSI AB.

So your boost number, to be clear, with this BIOS will no longer be 1531, it will be 1481. If things test out OK at the default boost of 1481, you can just overclock the GPU +10Mhz more at a time in MSI AB and test again. Repeat until no longer stable or you see the issue again.

If you are still seeing the issues after this even at a lower boost clock, you can try another PC just to rule out something specific to your PC (and rule in something specific to your card). I would expect you to reach 1500 boost stable even on a bad day. I hate to say it but if this BIOS does the same thing and your card cannot reliably boost to even 1481, it might be time to flash the stock BIOS back and RMA the card. At least you have some more tests to do first.

Good luck my friend!!
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post #182 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 01:19 AM
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Why 10MHz jumps? I thought it worked on 13MHz straps?
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post #183 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 03:22 AM
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Tried the new BIOS. It seems ok.



Please tell me this card is not faulty.. I have been sending back at least 10 cards this month.. I don't want to start again tongue.gif

Btw I was able to get 1531 MHz even with the power slider at 100%. GPU shark hasn't shown any limitation during these tests!

Edit: tried to flash a BIOS similar to the one you posted, just tried to increase the core clock. 1557 is too much, I get strong artifacts. It might be stable if I lowered the memory clocks.. Hynix doesn't easily handle 8000 MHz. Anyway I'll think about that later.

So the final test I ran was at 1531 MHz boost with forced 1281 mV voltage as your latest test BIOS was set.

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/6519205

Not really good as a score.. I've seen cards do much better with lower clocks. Well I guess I didn't get a great overclocker here? frown.gif One thing I can't explain to myself is that I've set 1544 MHz in the BIOS as boost clock but the card stayed 1 bin lower, 1531 MHz.

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post #184 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

Why 10MHz jumps? I thought it worked on 13MHz straps?

Yes the boost table does and when you set the base clock in the BIOS but when using an overclocking utility, you can even go 1Mhz at a time when under load (and voltage/power sliders maxxed) to dial in the perfect frequency. Testing 1Mhz at a time is a bit tedious though tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obyboby View Post

Tried the new BIOS. It seems ok.

Please tell me this card is not faulty.. I have been sending back at least 10 cards this month.. I don't want to start again tongue.gif

headscratch.gifexclamation.gif umm... 10?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obyboby View Post

Btw I was able to get 1531 MHz even with the power slider at 100%. GPU shark hasn't shown any limitation during these tests!

We just didn't want to give your card any reason to throttle due to reaching a power limitation smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obyboby View Post

So the final test I ran was at 1531 MHz boost with forced 1281 mV voltage as your latest test BIOS was set.

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/6519205

Not really good as a score.. I've seen cards do much better with lower clocks. Well I guess I didn't get a great overclocker here? frown.gif One thing I can't explain to myself is that I've set 1544 MHz in the BIOS as boost clock but the card stayed 1 bin lower, 1531 MHz.

I would say that score is appropriate for the hardware and you are also troubleshooting with a test bios.

Did you see the voltage drops again?
Did you try overclocking the GPU (NOT in the BIOS) and seeing how high your boosts would go?

We can take this offline, please PM me and we will continue to troubleshoot this and find your card's limit.

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post #185 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laithan View Post

Yes the boost table does and when you set the base clock in the BIOS but when using an overclocking utility, you can even go 1Mhz at a time when under load (and voltage/power sliders maxxed) to dial in the perfect frequency. Testing 1Mhz at a time is a bit tedious though tongue.gif

headscratch.gifexclamation.gif umm... 10?!
We just didn't want to give your card any reason to throttle due to reaching a power limitation smile.gif
I would say that score is appropriate for the hardware and you are also troubleshooting with a test bios.

Did you see the voltage drops again?
Did you try overclocking the GPU (NOT in the BIOS) and seeing how high your boosts would go?

We can take this offline, please PM me and we will continue to troubleshoot this and find your card's limit.

Thanks for your help. I've flashed my stock BIOS back in for now, maybe in the few days I will do more testing. The voltage didn't drop during the last test, neither did the core clock. So I guess forcing the maximum voltage worked. The thing is, if I'm going crazy for about 50 MHz on my core, is it really worth it? I enjoy working on the BIOS and trying to get the best out of my hardware but I get bored when I can't find a solution to something :/

Regarding the cards I've sent back, well, I exagerated the thing xD But since october I had 2 970s and 4 980s. All gigabyte G1s. FIrst I had a single 970, then moved to a SLI, then sent them back for the "VRAM gate", switched to a 980, bought 2 because I was feeling power greedy and wanted a SLI, realized it was too much, took the opportunity to test a few cards in order to find the best overclocker, ended up with this one which it's not the best but hey, it's still a 980. biggrin.gif

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post #186 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 09:43 AM
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This is my first time posting to a forum so I apologize in advance if I am not following etiquette, just tell what the rules are and I'll follow.
I have two Gigabyte Gtx 980 G1 on water. Asic: 69.2% / 74.7%
I installed the latest bios from Laithian, Thank you very much, V5Beta.
The new bios works great, +60 on the core and memory. So my clocks sit at 1591 (boost) and Mem at 1753.

My question is regarding Power Limit, it seems that as long as my power limit at least 100% anything higher has no effect on performance, my TDP does not go past 90%, Avg is 80%.
Is this normal? or could I possibly get more performance out these cards, maybe I am doing something wrong? I
came from a 780ti and TDP was 120% when overclocked.

Just curious.

Here are my system specs:

5960x @ 4.4
x99 Deluxe
16gb 2800mhz ram
1200axi corsair
Gtx 980 G1 x2
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post #187 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardorz80 View Post

This is my first time posting to a forum so I apologize in advance if I am not following etiquette, just tell what the rules are and I'll follow.
I have two Gigabyte Gtx 980 G1 on water. Asic: 69.2% / 74.7%
I installed the latest bios from Laithian, Thank you very much, V5Beta.
The new bios works great, +60 on the core and memory. So my clocks sit at 1591 (boost) and Mem at 1753.

My question is regarding Power Limit, it seems that as long as my power limit at least 100% anything higher has no effect on performance, my TDP does not go past 90%, Avg is 80%.
Is this normal? or could I possibly get more performance out these cards, maybe I am doing something wrong? I
came from a 780ti and TDP was 120% when overclocked.

Just curious.

Here are my system specs:

5960x @ 4.4
x99 Deluxe
16gb 2800mhz ram
1200axi corsair
Gtx 980 G1 x2

Welcome to Overclock.net! biggrin.gif

There is a strong possibility that under heavy load you will throttle if the power limit is not maxed out (check the temp slider also!) Now this does not mean that you will actually USE that much power, it's just that under very heavy load you might go above your 100% power limit and if that happens you will get throttling, stuttering and possibly even crashes. It's best to max everything out. Don't worry about the card being overworked, these cards can take above 1.4v in hacks and as long as they stay below 95c no damage will come to them (although I hear these new maxwell cards throttle at 70 or 80c no matter what).

Also, that's a GREAT boost clock. Looks like you got lucky!
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post #188 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardorz80 View Post

This is my first time posting to a forum so I apologize in advance if I am not following etiquette, just tell what the rules are and I'll follow.
I have two Gigabyte Gtx 980 G1 on water. Asic: 69.2% / 74.7%
I installed the latest bios from Laithian, Thank you very much, V5Beta.
The new bios works great, +60 on the core and memory. So my clocks sit at 1591 (boost) and Mem at 1753.

My question is regarding Power Limit, it seems that as long as my power limit at least 100% anything higher has no effect on performance, my TDP does not go past 90%, Avg is 80%.
Is this normal? or could I possibly get more performance out these cards, maybe I am doing something wrong? I
came from a 780ti and TDP was 120% when overclocked.

Just curious.

Here are my system specs:

5960x @ 4.4
x99 Deluxe
16gb 2800mhz ram
1200axi corsair
Gtx 980 G1 x2

Welcome!
I agree with cookieboyeli, you have nice hardware that is a great overclock! thumb.gif
Thanks for sharing the results with us!

To be clear, we are referring to the Power TDP% in software. Here is an example:



I've been wanting to post about this "TDP% software reading" so thanks for asking. In my BIOS 100% power is higher than stock power, EDIT: Not with the final release version. which is why you are seeing that. If you take a look at the video I posted on perfcaps, you can actually see how every last bit of the power % slider is fully utilized and needed to remove perfcaps at extreme GPU loads :

For you and others, let's dig in a bit as to some of the findings through proven testing. To answer your question quickly, you cannot compare the TDP% value of a GTX980 custom BIOS to a 780Ti value. As a matter of fact, you can't even compare the TDP% value of a stock BIOS of the same make/model with a modified BIOS (assuming the power settings were not left stock).

The easy (I hope) explanation is:

There are tweaks in the BIOS that allow you to adjust the range of the power % slider in your fav overclocking program. This is why with my BIOS you will notice the power % slider can go up to 140%. I could actually make the range on the power % slider any value that I wanted and the ACTUAL max power, when the slider is maxxed all the way out, actually never changes. The actual TOTAL POWER allowed is IDENTICAL in both cases when the slider is set to MAX.

PS. The reason I chose 140% in V5BETA because it gave you almost double the "tweak points" for power %, for those who want the choice but it is mostly cosmetic because we typically just max it out anyway. Compared with the stock OEM BIOS, 122% was 22 tweak points from 100%-122% max. V5BETA is 140% with 40 tweak points from 100%-140% max. It is simply how the MAX power configured in the BIOS is distributed across the total RANGE of the power % slider.

Another example: Let's use the default power % range with the G1 (maximum of 122%) as an example. What does 122% mean? People tend to think that raising it to 122% power would be adding 22% more power to the card than stock right? NOPE. That is NOT the case necessarily.. It would ONLY be true if the total max power allowed (value) in the BIOS was mathematically 22% more than stock wattage. It all depends on how the BIOS is configured (what max power value was used) and what the default value is. IE: 22% of 5 dollars isn't the same as 22% of 1,000 dollars but they are both 22% right? thumb.gif

How I figured this out:
I started to play around with the TDP value (top section in power tab). I increased it to multiple values (even an insanely high one) over and over and re-flashed.. There was NO difference in the TDP% software reading under load. I knew right away at this point that the TDP% calculation had NOTHING TO DO with the ACTUAL TDP value in the BIOS if modifying the TDP value in the BIOS made no difference with the calculation of the power TDP% in software. I started to play around with the increase of power on the PCI-e rails..(slightly lower and raise) and again, NO difference in the power TDP% reading either! I was like HUH?!? I figured, OK it must be the relationship between the MAX POWER value and the MAX TDP value..... NOPE AGAIN! There was NO difference in the TDP% reading with this change either! I tested if they matched or one was slightly lower/higher also.

Scratching my head, I needed to seek an understanding as to what DOES impact the TDP% reading (what changes CAN I make that affect the reading/value) and it basically came down to 2 things:

(1) Memory Overclocking - UNDER LOAD If you set your memory to +0 and monitor power TDP% and then set it to +500 (or highest you can) and monitor TDP% again you'll notice overclocking ONLY the memory made the TDP% jump considerably.

(2) MAX POWER section of the BIOS - Adjusting the difference between the default power value and the maximum power value. The same adjustment that allows you to specify the range of the power slider.

The thing is, adjusting the mathematical DIFFERENCE between DEFAULT power and MAX POWER doesn't ever actually CHANGE THE MAXIMUM POWER ALLOWED it just changes the calculation of the power TDP% shown in software... which at that point to me, I don't even bother looking at it. It has no actual relationship to the power being DRAWN or any relationship to the actual HEAT OUTPUT of the card as far as I can tell.


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post #189 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 06:22 PM
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Thanks to both of you, cookieboyeli and Laithan for the warm welcome and the help. I really appreciate it.

So I have everything set to max as you can see in the picture, and specifically with Power Limit at 140% and temps are at 47C under load.

If I am understanding cookieboyeli correctly, setting powerlimit to the max ensures that power draw does not become a throttle point upto the MAX power draw of the card, is that correct?

To your point Laithan, 140% power limit is NOT giving me and additional 40% power draw on the card, the MAX is the MAX.

Then it seems that the difference between 122% and 140% are just different representations of the "whole pie". Where anything over 100% like 122% or 140% is allowing the user to refine the power limit changes to smaller units, ie an additional 22 points or 40 points, tweak points as you called them, again based on how the bios was designed.

Then what is the benefit of refining the spectrum of power draw increments? For instance using 180% power limit vs 100% where both at there max use total max power draw.

Again I know you guys said the 780ti is different, and I agree, the only thing I would mention is that if I set the power limit to the max, I think it was 125% it would crash. But when I set it to 110% it was smooth as butter.

Could it be that the refinements in power limit allow for a more precise determination of power usage, where maybe, too much power would have an adverse effect to the max overclock of the card?

See my pics of the 980's under load with Heaven Bench mark for reference.




I couldn't figure out how to post a legible picture so I placed an attachment as well.
HTPCpic.jpg 1601k .jpg file


P.S. Also if there is anything that I can contribute to the forum.
research etc. Let me know I would be more than happy to help anyway I can.
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post #190 of 7846 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardorz80 View Post

Thanks to both of you, cookieboyeli and Laithan for the warm welcome and the help. I really appreciate it.

So I have everything set to max as you can see in the picture, and specifically with Power Limit at 140% and temps are at 47C under load.

If I am understanding cookieboyeli correctly, setting powerlimit to the max ensures that power draw does not become a throttle point upto the MAX power draw of the card, is that correct?

That's great temps, picture looks good, no perfcaps wink.gif Yes, you are understanding correctly smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardorz80 View Post

To your point Laithan, 140% power limit is NOT giving me and additional 40% power draw on the card, the MAX is the MAX.

Then it seems that the difference between 122% and 140% are just different representations of the "whole pie". Where anything over 100% like 122% or 140% is allowing the user to refine the power limit changes to smaller units, ie an additional 22 points or 40 points, tweak points as you called them, again based on how the bios was designed.

Then what is the benefit of refining the spectrum of power draw increments? For instance using 180% power limit vs 100% where both at there max use total max power draw.

Yup, max is the max. I think there are many reasons, albeit not 'mainstream' or 'most common usage scenarios' but there might be a time where heat is an issue for someone and they need to lower the power to make the card run cooler. There could be a power draw issue, etc. I just didn't want to take the control away from the user and while I was at it, I did increase the range to 140% just to give more refined tweaking ability but as I mentioned before, it is mostly just cosmetic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardorz80 View Post

Could it be that the refinements in power limit allow for a more precise determination of power usage, where maybe, too much power would have an adverse effect to the max overclock of the card?


During my testing I have found times where "too much" was really "too much" in a few different areas. I tested a LOT (still do) and so have many others. I wanted to make sure the effort put into this BIOS was not just for performance, but for SAFE and GAME STABLE performance.. Max potential of the card. I am of the opinion that the limits I have set in the BIOS are safe. thumb.gif

Feel free to MAX OUT the voltage and power sliders all the way! band.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by eduardorz80 View Post

P.S. Also if there is anything that I can contribute to the forum.
research etc. Let me know I would be more than happy to help anyway I can.

You already have biggrin.gif. I mean a six pack of Titan X's for research and educational purposes to everyone reading this thread comes to mind... LMAO!

EDIT: I guess what they say about ASICs maybe is true that sometimes the % doesn't mean anything.. We have the same config and 1571Mhz is really pushing it for my cards. I absolutely cannot run at 1591Mhz like you are. My ASICs are both 72%.

GIGABYTE GTX 9xx G1 GAMING BIOS Tweaking
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