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post #41 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-17-2015, 11:05 AM
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@Laithan
1) I'm pretty sure (from what I've read around the forum) that voltage limit is 1312 mV. The fact you are not noticing stability improvements doesn't mean that voltage does not increase. The improvements may be there for someone else.
Do you know where are the measuring points on the card? I would like to do a test by myself but I don't know the exact points on G1.

2) Why haven't you increased memory frequency? I guess that it can be safely increased to 4000 MHz (not sure if the whole Samsung vs Hynix debate may influence).
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post #42 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-17-2015, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OniLink View Post

@Laithan
1) I'm pretty sure (from what I've read around the forum) that voltage limit is 1312 mV. The fact you are not noticing stability improvements doesn't mean that voltage does not increase. The improvements may be there for someone else.
Do you know where are the measuring points on the card? I would like to do a test by myself but I don't know the exact points on G1.

2) Why haven't you increased memory frequency? I guess that it can be safely increased to 4000 MHz (not sure if the whole Samsung vs Hynix debate may influence).

I agree that you can configure the BIOS to get up to 1.313V on some GTX 980 cards and some of them will be "OK" with it but unfortunately for both my cards (and I am guessing all G1's), the extra voltage beyond 1.281V doesn't help in fact it hurts. I think this is basically a design limitation of the Gigabyte cards.. maybe resistors used, VRM quality, I am not really sure exactly. Since this is a G1 specific thread, I see no need to allow more voltage than the hardware can handle.

As for the memory clocks, since I don't know what people will be using (Samsung or not) I don't want to pre-configure a potentially unstable setting. I think everyone knows that you can also clock the memory if you've made it this far smile.gif. To be honest, even though I have Samsung I experience stability issues sometimes. The most I usually overclock my memory to is ~1900. When I set it to 2000 (8Ghz effective), at 4k resolution and max settings will sometimes show some instability for me.

GIGABYTE GTX 9xx G1 GAMING BIOS Tweaking
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post #43 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-17-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Laithan View Post

I agree that you can configure the BIOS to get up to 1.313V on some GTX 980 cards and some of them will be "OK" with it but unfortunately for both my cards (and I am guessing all G1's), the extra voltage beyond 1.281V doesn't help in fact it hurts. I think this is basically a design limitation of the Gigabyte cards.. maybe resistors used, VRM quality, I am not really sure exactly. Since this is a G1 specific thread, I see no need to allow more voltage than the hardware can handle.

As for the memory clocks, since I don't know what people will be using (Samsung or not) I don't want to pre-configure a potentially unstable setting. I think everyone knows that you can also clock the memory if you've made it this far smile.gif. To be honest, even though I have Samsung I experience stability issues sometimes. The most I usually overclock my memory to is ~1900. When I set it to 2000 (8Ghz effective), at 4k resolution and max settings will sometimes show some instability for me.

Hmm, it seems odd to me that G1's have lower voltage limit than stock cards. You said you can't access the measure points, so I suppose you know where they are. Can you please tell me? I removed the stock cooler so I should be able (as soon as I have some free time) to measure the real voltage.


OT: I noticed you synchronized GPC, SYS, L2C and XBAR as Zoson did/suggested. Can you confirm that it improves performance (FPS value)? Some people reported instability with no performance gain at all, some even a FPS loss.
At the moment I have synchronized them too and had not stability issues.
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post #44 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-17-2015, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OniLink View Post

Hmm, it seems odd to me that G1's have lower voltage limit than stock cards. You said you can't access the measure points, so I suppose you know where they are. Can you please tell me? I removed the stock cooler so I should be able (as soon as I have some free time) to measure the real voltage.


OT: I noticed you synchronized GPC, SYS, L2C and XBAR as Zoson did/suggested. Can you confirm that it improves performance (FPS value)? Some people reported instability with no performance gain at all, some even a FPS loss.
At the moment I have synchronized them too and had not stability issues.

I could be wrong but here is how I came to that conclusion:

My understanding is that stock reference cards with a reference BIOS max out at 1.265V. This limit is due to BIOS limitations, not hardware limitations. Modding the BIOS will allow up to 1.312V but that doesn't mean the accompanying hardware can also handle it, it just means it is the the max voltage limit from a BIOS soft mod until you hard-mod.

To be clear, I think my G1's will send 1.312V I just don't think it does any good to push that much voltage because when I allow beyond 1.281V I get VREL perfcaps under load, which seems to me would indicate that VRELs are capped. When I back the max voltage back down to 1.281V in the BIOS, the identical boost clocks are seen but there was no perfcap shown anymore. This is what led me to believe that there must be something holding the voltage back beyond 1.281V and why I didn't bother allowing any more. I just didn't see any improvement and the perfcap was what I focused on. I really tried to get 1580 stable also but I couldn't so that sort of tells you that something other than just voltage is holding me back, I mean I'm at 45C under full load...the temps are way low and the card has (2) 8-PIN PCIe for juice...

As far as the GPC, SYS, L2C etc I basically saw that many people were syncing them up across many different custom BIOS' so I followed suit. I haven't really done much testing with those settings specifically, most of what I've been testing/tweaking has been with the voltage table, power values and boost clocks. I don't seem to have any issues with them synced either.

GIGABYTE GTX 9xx G1 GAMING BIOS Tweaking
  ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=༼ຈل͜ຈ༽=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿  
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post #45 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-17-2015, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laithan View Post

I could be wrong but here is how I came to that conclusion:

My understanding is that stock reference cards with a reference BIOS max out at 1.265V. This limit is due to BIOS limitations, not hardware limitations. Modding the BIOS will allow up to 1.312V but that doesn't mean the accompanying hardware can also handle it, it just means it is the the max voltage limit from a BIOS soft mod until you hard-mod.

To be clear, I think my G1's will send 1.312V I just don't think it does any good to push that much voltage because when I allow beyond 1.281V I get VREL perfcaps under load, which seems to me would indicate that VRELs are capped. When I back the max voltage back down to 1.281V in the BIOS, the identical boost clocks are seen but there was no perfcap shown anymore. This is what led me to believe that there must be something holding the voltage back beyond 1.281V and why I didn't bother allowing any more. I just didn't see any improvement and the perfcap was what I focused on. I really tried to get 1580 stable also but I couldn't so that sort of tells you that something other than just voltage is holding me back, I mean I'm at 45C under full load...the temps are way low and the card has (2) 8-PIN PCIe for juice...

As far as the GPC, SYS, L2C etc I basically saw that many people were syncing them up across many different custom BIOS' so I followed suit. I haven't really done much testing with those settings specifically, most of what I've been testing/tweaking has been with the voltage table, power values and boost clocks. I don't seem to have any issues with them synced either.

The PerfCap is based on the tables: I've set 1312 mV as max voltage and 1312 mV for CLK74 and I have no PerfCap reason when the card is working.
Basically PerfCap reason is telling you why the card performance is limited based on used values and BIOS limits; setting the BIOS so max turbo voltage and last CLK voltage match each other will give you non PerfCap reason.
Bad explanation but hope you understood XD
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post #46 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-17-2015, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OniLink View Post

The PerfCap is based on the tables: I've set 1312 mV as max voltage and 1312 mV for CLK74 and I have no PerfCap reason when the card is working.
Basically PerfCap reason is telling you why the card performance is limited based on used values and BIOS limits; setting the BIOS so max turbo voltage and last CLK voltage match each other will give you non PerfCap reason.
Bad explanation but hope you understood XD

I appreciate anyone jumping in to help and work to reveal the inner workings of these sometimes cryptic settings and especially CORRECT ME if I took a wrong turn!thumb.gif
I have some pretty bad explanations too haha! Here is another redface.gif

One of the last areas of focus for me has been the voltage because I was pretty sure that the only way to increase my clocks was to increase the voltage. If I consider what I have learned on this adventure, it has been that the cards are primarily limited by voltage of some sort (this limit can range from just a bios limitation to physical hardware on your hard) . Assuming you've maxxed out the BIOS tweaks, you can give it all the power and keep temps down all you want but at the end of the day, your overclock will be limited to the ASIC quality and the speed of your GPU at the max voltage of 1.312V.

Now I can mention what I think may be specific to these Gigabyte G1 cards...

As I mentioned, I was focusing on the voltage so basically the last tweaks I have been doing were to keep essentially all other settings the same, but just change the voltage tables. I do the same as you mentioned, I will match CLK 74 (and a few before as shown below) to the max voltage I specify on the top sliders.



What I did was actually work in reverse. I had started at 1350mV and noticed my max boost of between 1570 and 1580 was showing more artifacts and red lines. I was surprised because I expected more voltage to increase stability (which it does in general) and to also start to question the Gigabyte G1 hardware itself. Long story short I backed the voltage down little by little, the only change was to the areas highlighted in the screenshot above, until my stability that I had to begin with was restored.

This was the same time I noticed my perfcap was also gone.



So in the end, I used 1281.3V which is the point where I no longer have the perfcap and restored stability...and since I didn't lose any clocks (nor did I gain) I came to the conclusion this was the "SWEET SPOT"

Does that make sense?

GIGABYTE GTX 9xx G1 GAMING BIOS Tweaking
  ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=༼ຈل͜ຈ༽=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿  
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post #47 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-17-2015, 05:02 PM
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I just got my card a few days ago and have been doing some overclocking. I've done the bios mod to the 970 G1, and I haven't done it to my 980 G1 yet.

Stock, I can get through heaven 4.0 at 1614/2029 (as read by GPU-Z) with power and voltage sliders maxed. The memory clock will go higher without crashing, (max temp is 62) but the overall benchmark score is lower, leading me to believe I need to boost my power limit and voltage in the bios.

ASIC is 82.5
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post #48 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-17-2015, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DirtyHarry View Post


ASIC is 82.5

Your getting 1614 boost on 1.265V? That ASIC is sweet! drool.gif

You won't get much more out of the memory. It is normal to see a drop in performance if the mem clocks get too crazy even if there are no artifacts.

GIGABYTE GTX 9xx G1 GAMING BIOS Tweaking
  ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=༼ຈل͜ຈ༽=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿  
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post #49 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-18-2015, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Laithan View Post

Your getting 1614 boost on 1.265V? That ASIC is sweet! drool.gif

You won't get much more out of the memory. It is normal to see a drop in performance if the mem clocks get too crazy even if there are no artifacts.

Ill have to check the stock bios later, I'm testing your V3 on it atm, but if I recall correctly it was actually 1.225v or 1.235v

So far it looks like it crashes within about 5-20 seconds at 1620, same as stock. However I do notice on my GPU-Z logs that it does spike to 1678 right at the point of crash, not sure what the issue is.
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post #50 of 7845 (permalink) Old 03-18-2015, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Laithan View Post

I appreciate anyone jumping in to help and work to reveal the inner workings of these sometimes cryptic settings and especially CORRECT ME if I took a wrong turn!thumb.gif
I have some pretty bad explanations too haha! Here is another redface.gif

One of the last areas of focus for me has been the voltage because I was pretty sure that the only way to increase my clocks was to increase the voltage. If I consider what I have learned on this adventure, it has been that the cards are primarily limited by voltage of some sort (this limit can range from just a bios limitation to physical hardware on your hard) . Assuming you've maxxed out the BIOS tweaks, you can give it all the power and keep temps down all you want but at the end of the day, your overclock will be limited to the ASIC quality and the speed of your GPU at the max voltage of 1.312V.

Now I can mention what I think may be specific to these Gigabyte G1 cards...

As I mentioned, I was focusing on the voltage so basically the last tweaks I have been doing were to keep essentially all other settings the same, but just change the voltage tables. I do the same as you mentioned, I will match CLK 74 (and a few before as shown below) to the max voltage I specify on the top sliders.



What I did was actually work in reverse. I had started at 1350mV and noticed my max boost of between 1570 and 1580 was showing more artifacts and red lines. I was surprised because I expected more voltage to increase stability (which it does in general) and to also start to question the Gigabyte G1 hardware itself. Long story short I backed the voltage down little by little, the only change was to the areas highlighted in the screenshot above, until my stability that I had to begin with was restored.

This was the same time I noticed my perfcap was also gone.



So in the end, I used 1281.3V which is the point where I no longer have the perfcap and restored stability...and since I didn't lose any clocks (nor did I gain) I came to the conclusion this was the "SWEET SPOT"

Does that make sense?

I understood what you've said but it does not really make sense XD
There can not be "too much voltage" that causes artifacts (afaik) unless you are hitting very high temps.
My hypothesis is that the run with 1350 mV simply was "unlucky" and you were luckier when you've tested with 1281.
Further more, since VRM is hardlimited to 1312, maybe asking him to provide 1350 may cause "conflicts" which ultimately lead to artifact.
Not completely sure if this makes any sense XD

If we believe to Gigabyte words, G1 series should be cherry picked so we shouldn't bother too much about ASIC quality (and the ASIC % from GPU-Z has been proven to mean almost nothing multiple times).
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyHarry View Post

I just got my card a few days ago and have been doing some overclocking. I've done the bios mod to the 970 G1, and I haven't done it to my 980 G1 yet.

Stock, I can get through heaven 4.0 at 1614/2029 (as read by GPU-Z) with power and voltage sliders maxed. The memory clock will go higher without crashing, (max temp is 62) but the overall benchmark score is lower, leading me to believe I need to boost my power limit and voltage in the bios.

ASIC is 82.5

Aside from benchmarks, can you even play for some hours (uninterruptedly, heavy graphics) without crashes and artifacts?
Because I don't believe you can achieve 1600+ MHz without even flashing the BIOS. And even after flashing it, reaching 1600 is god damn hard.
Sorry for the skepticism but I keep seeing people claiming they reach high frequencies while surpassing a benchmark and short after posting that is not game-stable.
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