Hyperthreading ON and OFF: Pictures (on 4790k 4.7 ghz 1070ti) - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

Hyperthreading ON and OFF: Pictures (on 4790k 4.7 ghz 1070ti)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 02:07 AM - Thread Starter
Свет
 
XLifted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,140
Rep: 36 (Unique: 35)
Hyperthreading ON and OFF: Pictures (on 4790k 4.7 ghz 1070ti)

Here is my test.

With no hyperthreading, I used 2 tests. After a long game session of R6 Siege, and after a restart. With HW Monitor and MSI afterburner running in the background.

Hyperthreading OFF wins this battle, and also...there were no lag spikes on CPU with Hyperthreading off, besides when the map was loading in. Benchmark also shows that there are no dips in FPS.

After 5 years of gaming, I realized that those game stutters were caused by my CPU's Hyperthreading. The more you know!

I also disabled 4 cores and left 4 when doing a separate test with Hyperthread enabled, to simulate NO Hyperthread environment while the rest of the processes remain at full Hyperthreading, by going into Task Manager and setting affinity to 4 cores for R6 Siege.exe, and it performed better than 8 Cores enabled, and had no dips of FPS in benchmark run.

Thing to notice as well is that graph for gpu response on 4 Core manually set in Taskmanager for R6 Siege and Hyperthreading ON was almost unaffected by any lag spikes, in comparison to 8 cores enabled and Hyperthread on, where spike were on the graph, jumping in an out randomly. Hence you can see 8 cores resulted in dips to 40 FPS, which is shouldn't be.

It was definitely felt over the years, but I never figured out how to fix it. I tried setting different memory settings, I played with CPU voltages, etc.

Hyperthreading was the case. New CPUs are not running in the same kind of issues as far as I can tell, but my i7 4790k happens to have it.

Try it out, test it out. Perhaps it will be better.

Also my CPU temps dropped 5-12 Celcius with Hyperthreading OFF from what it was with Hyperthreading ON.

Also PC is consuming about 18 watts less when gaming with Hyperthreading ON, and I don't see any difference in computer speed.

I also tested start up times, and realized that it starts identically quick. I used the watch to compare.
If you are gaming, give it a shot, I noticed my FPS boosted in game by about 10-15 FPS, which is big for me, without doing anything, and reduced any kind of lag spike on GPU/CPU, it's flat on the graph with Hyperthreading OFF.

Separate video online ran tests in 10 games, and all of them performed better with Hyperthreading OFF with i7 4790k

Free FPS and stable frames. WHY NOT!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hyperthreading 4 cores Affinity - Copy.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	200.9 KB
ID:	253612  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Hyperthreading 8 Cores.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	166.0 KB
ID:	253614  

Click image for larger version

Name:	No Hyperthreading (After gaming session).jpg
Views:	37
Size:	166.1 KB
ID:	253616  

Click image for larger version

Name:	No Hyperthreading (After Restart).jpg
Views:	34
Size:	161.1 KB
ID:	253618  

XLifted is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 01:58 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,532
Rep: 20 (Unique: 14)
But some games are SMT aware (e.g. Dying Light). Wouldn't they benefit from hyperthreading on?

I remember when I used to work w/HPC clusters consisting of IBM 3550-M4's they had studies that indicated hyperthreading sometimes hurt HPC application performance but sometimes helped. Here's what one old IBM white paper said about hyperthreading on the Sandybridge architecture:

Hyperthreading/Simultaneous Multi Processing (HT/SMT)
HT/SMT is Intel’s way of scheduling poorly-threaded applications so that a single core can function like two
virtual cores. Use of HT/SMT helps very few workloads. In a few workloads, having HT/SMT actually hurts
performance. Performance increases in those workloads that HT/SMT helps is generally low.
It is advised to set HT/SMT OFF.

But supposedly later iterations of hyperthreading have increased performance?
8051 is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
Свет
 
XLifted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,140
Rep: 36 (Unique: 35)
Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
But some games are SMT aware (e.g. Dying Light). Wouldn't they benefit from hyperthreading on?

I remember when I used to work w/HPC clusters consisting of IBM 3550-M4's they had studies that indicated hyperthreading sometimes hurt HPC application performance but sometimes helped. Here's what one old IBM white paper said about hyperthreading on the Sandybridge architecture:

Hyperthreading/Simultaneous Multi Processing (HT/SMT)
HT/SMT is Intel’s way of scheduling poorly-threaded applications so that a single core can function like two
virtual cores. Use of HT/SMT helps very few workloads. In a few workloads, having HT/SMT actually hurts
performance. Performance increases in those workloads that HT/SMT helps is generally low.
It is advised to set HT/SMT OFF.

But supposedly later iterations of hyperthreading have increased performance?
According to new CPUs past Haswell, yes, I saw improvements in variety of games, of 10-22 fps difference with Hyperthreading ON

But I am sure logic still follows to some isolated scenarios, in comparison to 4790k that loses in gaming potential.

Hyperthread helps with rendering of videos and creating zip files for an example. Up to 52% improvement
XLifted is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 04:45 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Telimektar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: France
Posts: 1,481
Rep: 86 (Unique: 76)
Quote: Originally Posted by XLifted View Post
According to new CPUs past Haswell, yes, I saw improvements in variety of games, of 10-22 fps difference with Hyperthreading ON

But I am sure logic still follows to some isolated scenarios, in comparison to 4790k that loses in gaming potential.

Hyperthread helps with rendering of videos and creating zip files for an example. Up to 52% improvement
Do you have core parking disabled ? I think it is disabled by defaut past Windows 7 (I'm still on 7 so can't say for sure) but when I disabled it on my 4790K W7 PC it fixed some stuttering issues I had with hyperthreading and some games.

My System
(15 items)
CPU
4790K
Motherboard
Asus Z97 Pro
GPU
Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X
RAM
16GB GSkil 2133MHz
Hard Drive
Seagate 2TB 2000DM001
Hard Drive
Seagate 3TB 3000DM001
Optical Drive
Plextor PX891SA
Power Supply
Corsair TX750W
Cooling
NH-C12P
Case
Lancool K62
Operating System
Windows 7 64bit
Monitor
Iiyama XB2783HSU
Keyboard
Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 3000
Mouse
Logitech G500
Audio
Xonar DX
▲ hide details ▲
Telimektar is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 05:02 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
white owl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: The land of Nod
Posts: 5,170
Rep: 126 (Unique: 96)
Never played the game but since getting my GTX1080 and 1440p/144hz monitor my 4690k was keeping my GPU at around 80% usage in any game I've tried in the last few years. I prioritize IQ and FPS equally in most games so I was always CPU bound. Upgrading to a 4790k was enough to keep my GPU at 99% unless VRR prevents it.
Both CPUs at 4.7ghz.
I'd never turn HT off. All modern applications take full advantage of HT or SMT, if it hurt performance it wouldn't even be a selling point.
Run Windows in High Performance and change the minimum speed it you want it to down clock. This disables core parking and keeps the CPU in a higher clock for longer.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpeedyVT
If you're not doing extreme things to parts for the sake of extreme things regardless of the part you're not a real overclocker.
Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
The key is generally not which brands are good but which specific products are. Motherboards and GPUs are perfect examples of companies having everything from golden to garbage function/quality.
Hot n Bothered
(12 items)
CPU
4790k 4.7Ghz
Motherboard
Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkII 2
GPU
EVGA GTX 1080 SC
RAM
16gb G.Skill Sniper 2400Mhz
Hard Drive
2x Kingston v300 120gb RAID 0
Hard Drive
WD Blue
Power Supply
Seasonic 620w M12 II EVO
Cooling
Cooler Master 212 Evo
Case
Corsair 450D
Operating System
Windows 10
Monitor
Nixeus EDG27
Other
I have pretty lights.
▲ hide details ▲
white owl is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 05:14 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Telimektar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: France
Posts: 1,481
Rep: 86 (Unique: 76)
Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
Never played the game but since getting my GTX1080 and 1440p/144hz monitor my 4690k was keeping my GPU at around 80% usage in any game I've tried in the last few years. I prioritize IQ and FPS equally in most games so I was always CPU bound. Upgrading to a 4790k was enough to keep my GPU at 99% unless VRR prevents it.
Both CPUs at 4.7ghz.
I'd never turn HT off. All modern applications take full advantage of HT or SMT, if it hurt performance it wouldn't even be a selling point.
It seems to still hurt performance even in some recent games, but it's fairly rare and not nearly as bad as it was in say 2010/2011 where it could have a huge negative impact on quite a few games, nowadays I certainly wouldn't disable it, it helps far more often than not.

http://www.comptoir-hardware.com/art...-.html?start=2

Link is in French but the graphic is self-explanatory, it's basically the same with or without HT with a 6700K, I know though that on 8 core Ryzen SMT can hurt performance a bit (around 5 to 6%) in some games, I think it's more due to the fact that those games just don't really what to do with all those threads than the fault of SMT itself though, it might be the same with 8 cores and up Intel chips but I just don't know.

My System
(15 items)
CPU
4790K
Motherboard
Asus Z97 Pro
GPU
Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X
RAM
16GB GSkil 2133MHz
Hard Drive
Seagate 2TB 2000DM001
Hard Drive
Seagate 3TB 3000DM001
Optical Drive
Plextor PX891SA
Power Supply
Corsair TX750W
Cooling
NH-C12P
Case
Lancool K62
Operating System
Windows 7 64bit
Monitor
Iiyama XB2783HSU
Keyboard
Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 3000
Mouse
Logitech G500
Audio
Xonar DX
▲ hide details ▲
Telimektar is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 05:28 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Telimektar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: France
Posts: 1,481
Rep: 86 (Unique: 76)
https://www.hardware.fr/articles/956...ct-smt-ht.html

II found a comparison in games here, in French too sorry (HT désactivé means HT off, HT activé means HT on, "moyenne jeux 3D" means "average for 3D games".

Watch Dogs 2 and F1 2016 don't seem to like SMT at all, other games are mostly fine with it as long as you disable core parking, and games are just a smidgen faster with HT off on the 6900K, newer 2018/2019 games would probably handle all those threads a bit better though, still really no reason to disable HT or SMT as long as you have core parking disabled, the very small hit in performance in some games isn't worth losing all those extra threads for productivity and the few games that can take advantage of them.

My System
(15 items)
CPU
4790K
Motherboard
Asus Z97 Pro
GPU
Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X
RAM
16GB GSkil 2133MHz
Hard Drive
Seagate 2TB 2000DM001
Hard Drive
Seagate 3TB 3000DM001
Optical Drive
Plextor PX891SA
Power Supply
Corsair TX750W
Cooling
NH-C12P
Case
Lancool K62
Operating System
Windows 7 64bit
Monitor
Iiyama XB2783HSU
Keyboard
Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 3000
Mouse
Logitech G500
Audio
Xonar DX
▲ hide details ▲
Telimektar is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
Свет
 
XLifted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,140
Rep: 36 (Unique: 35)
Quote: Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post
Do you have core parking disabled ? I think it is disabled by defaut past Windows 7 (I'm still on 7 so can't say for sure) but when I disabled it on my 4790K W7 PC it fixed some stuttering issues I had with hyperthreading and some games.
Yes, everything is unparked. I am very thorough when it comes to PC performance, OCD I should say.
i7 4790k running at stable 4.7 ghz, 32 gbs of DDR3 ram, excellent airflow, and all the good stuff.



Quote: Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post
It seems to still hurt performance even in some recent games, but it's fairly rare and not nearly as bad as it was in say 2010/2011 where it could have a huge negative impact on quite a few games, nowadays I certainly wouldn't disable it, it helps far more often than not.

http://www.comptoir-hardware.com/art...-.html?start=2

Link is in French but the graphic is self-explanatory, it's basically the same with or without HT with a 6700K, I know though that on 8 core Ryzen SMT can hurt performance a bit (around 5 to 6%) in some games, I think it's more due to the fact that those games just don't really what to do with all those threads than the fault of SMT itself though, it might be the same with 8 cores and up Intel chips but I just don't know.
i7 above Haswell benefit from Hypertheading in games, Haswell...not so much, actually much worse, according to FPS stats and gpu spikes while running HT mode.

Single core performance is better than dissecting a core into a virtual one for games...for sure on 4790k. I had those stutters in every game I played. From old Insurgency, to Battlefield games, to R6 Seige.

The worst lag spikes in anything that is Unreal engine based, like Insurgency Sandstorm. It's disgusting. Will be testing using that game eventually too.

Modern titles favor Intel processors past Haswell with HT, turning off HT will likely reduce FPS according to youtube test videos.

It's interesting point.

So to people that say HT is bad for games, they are right (with older CPUs), and to the people that say HT helps the games, they are right for many CPUs past Haswell i7s

And the only way to tell...is to test.

AND...the only way I found out was by looking at fps spikes on the MSI afterburner graph in real time.
XLifted is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 02:34 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,532
Rep: 20 (Unique: 14)
Aside from more memory channels and PCIe lanes, is the Haswell-E basically the same CPU as the Haswell?
8051 is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
Свет
 
XLifted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,140
Rep: 36 (Unique: 35)
Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
Aside from more memory channels and PCIe lanes, is the Haswell-E basically the same CPU as the Haswell?

I would say no, because it goes in LGA 2011 socket, and Haswells are 1150 socket
XLifted is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off