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What does LLC do in the bios?

 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Well my friend finally got his sandy bridge build and I was gonna take a look at it and OC it for him, i know exactly what to do to actually OC the thing, but there are some settings in the bios that i see people talking about here that I don't know. Things like LLC. Should i keep it on/off when trying to OC? Any other options in the bios that i should turn on/off when trying to OC a 2500k? He has an asrock p67 extreme 4 mobo.

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 01:40 AM
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For me I set my LLC off.
That way I know what's the max.

There was a thread on LLC along with Anandtech's graphs https://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/657317-vdroop-not-llc-poll.html

The main things I got from that was the graph and INGRAMLI's and AyeYo's thoughts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by INGRAMLI;9438901 
From what i read from the graph of vdroop/vdrop on/off, it indicated that LLC in fact did not eliminate the vdroop at first place, it only bumps it up to the original idle level AFTER it has dropped, but instability can happens no matter how short period the voltage has stayed in the lowest level (maximum negative offshoot), and the attempt to bring the voltage back to the orginal (idle) level also increase the maximum voltage hit when the loading level decrease from peak to idle......

In short, i dont see any reason to use LLC, as it did not eliminate the instability resulted from vdroop, even worse, it increased the voltage fluctuation (the delta of min/max voltage), meaning a higher maximum voltage hit to maintain the stability.......The only valid reason to have LLC on IMHO is when extreme OCing, the maximum Vcore setting available in BIOS is simply not enough, where LLC may be the last resort, but otherwise i would keep it OFF.

-> https://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/657317-vdroop-not-llc-poll-8.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by AyeYo;8945725 
LLC is really you just fooling yourself into thinking you're running less voltage. Think of it like this...

With LLC disabled, you set BIOS voltage to what you feel to be safe, 1.36v. You then fire up Prime, voltage drops to, say, 1.32v... and you fail Prime.

You then enable LLC, BIOS voltage is still set to 1.36v. You fire up, Prime and voltage doesn't drop (it stays at 1.36v, on some boards maybe it even goes up to 1.40v)... and you pass Prime.


You incorrectly conclude that LLC stabilized your overclock. But what's really happening here? The reality of the matter is that your overclock needs 1.36v under load to be stable. LLC gives you 1.36v under load with a BIOS set voltage of 1.36v. If you wanted 1.36v under load with LLC disabled, you'd need to up BIOS voltage to maybe 1.39v. So it takes more voltage to stabilize your overclock that way, right? Wrong.

With LLC disabled, the voltage you set in the BIOS is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM your CPU will see on that high-load to low-load spike. It is NOT the running voltage of your CPU.

With LLC enabled, the voltage you set in the BIOS is NOT the absolute maximum your CPU will see on that spike - it is the voltage your CPU will see under load. This means that when your CPU encounters the high to low load voltage spike, it's going to overshoot your BIOS set voltage by quite a bit (as can be seen in the graph from Anandtech). This means your CPU ends up seeing HIGHER voltage than it does with LLC disabled... you just don't know about it.

LLC boils down to, out of sight, out of mind. Disabling it and raising your BIOS voltage until you are stable is simply letting you see just how much voltage your CPU is really seeing with LLC on.

Hope that made sense... I suck at explaining stuff...

-> https://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/657317-vdroop-not-llc-poll-6.html

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomblade;13915714 
Well my friend finally got his sandy bridge build and I was gonna take a look at it and OC it for him, i know exactly what to do to actually OC the thing, but there are some settings in the bios that i see people talking about here that I don't know. Things like LLC. Should i keep it on/off when trying to OC? Any other options in the bios that i should turn on/off when trying to OC a 2500k? He has an asrock p67 extreme 4 mobo.
LLC is Load Line Calibration. It basically prevents the voltage in the OS from going below what you set it to in the BIOS after Vdrop. Vdrop is an automatic difference between BIOS and OS. (Vdrop and Vdroop are different things)

Normally voltage won't go above what you set because of a safety feature called Vdroop. The higher the load, the more the voltage would "droop" or dip down. As such, you need a higher voltage in BIOS with LLC off than when on to compensate for the droop under load and maintain stability.

With LLC on, the voltage will actually go up slightly under load instead of drooping down.

It's personal preference really, but LLC can be useful if going for a really high OC so your voltage isn't sky high when idle. Despite what some may say, LLC has been shown to be pretty safe based on the multitude of OCers here on OCN. I leave it off though.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 11:15 AM
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LLC just helps reduce vdroop which the change in voltage from idle to load (ussually a drop in voltage) to compensate for the increase in current and to keep the CPU in thermal spec, becuase Voltage X amperage = power and power =wattage, anyways LLC basically lowers the amount of voltage that is dropped.

In the past like a few years ago, there was a few articles that said LLC was and is dangerous becuase you can get huge transient spikes in voltage when suddenly going from load to idle. The truth is that if you buy a board that is built with good parts, like from asus or gigabyte or other top boards makers, LLC is pretty safe. i wouldn't worry about, and id use it on a sandybrdige platform, as intel has upped their requirements for the CPU VRM extensively.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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thx for the great answers every1, +rep all

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 07:58 PM
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LLC basically reduces VDroop under load, so when your CPU is demanding power the motherboard will still be able to give it it's power.

EDIT: Oops, little to late redface.gif


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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 08:00 PM
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My voltage never goes up with llc enabled, it just doesn't drop out as far under load.


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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunion;13923274 
My voltage never goes up with llc enabled, it just doesn't drop out as far under load.
Some boards allow varying degrees of LLC, essentially allowing the voltage to droop still, just less, while others just have on and off.

It also wouldn't go up any except for under load, if it did at all. Run Prime small and see if it happens.

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari;13924134 
Some boards allow varying degrees of LLC, essentially allowing the voltage to droop still, just less, while others just have on and off.

It also wouldn't go up any except for under load, if it did at all. Run Prime small and see if it happens.

Trust me, my vcore never increases under load, ever.


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