Upgrading old system, 4670k/4690k overclocked vs i5-750 @3.7GHz, gaming in 2018. - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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Upgrading old system, 4670k/4690k overclocked vs i5-750 @3.7GHz, gaming in 2018.

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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Upgrading old system, 4670k/4690k overclocked vs i5-750 @3.7GHz, gaming in 2018.

My main plan is to keep using my DDR3 RAM and Windows 7, instead of having to upgrade (I'm not at all worried about not having Windows Updates in the future). I'd like to get this old PC to be basically the best it can be before eventually building a whole new PC. For now I think the CPU upgrade would be the biggest change, followed by an SSD. After that I'd probably get a 144Hz FreeSync 2 monitor.

Main use concern is for gaming performance @ 1080p, 75Hz, and in the future 144Hz.

Is going from my overclocked i5-750 to a 4670k/4690k a very good upgrade? I notice hitching in some more intensive games (like Grand Theft Auto 5) using my i5-750 even with what look like reasonable frame rates at times, and am wondering if the overall experience will become noticeably smoother were I to upgrade.

Would a newer CPU than the 4670k/4690k, whether 4 core or 6+ core be a lot smoother in newer games in terms of noticeable hitching/slowdown?

4670k/4690k seem to be decent value for what you pay, and are the last generation to support both DDR3 RAM and Windows 7 at the same time. I'm wondering if I can expect significant performance gains going with one of those CPUs, and if combined with my RX 580 8GB VRAM, I'd have any significant form of CPU bottleneck in new games (I've read what seems to be possible confirmation in different places that this CPU upgrade and the RX 580 are a good match in terms of there being minimal bottleneck potential).

I'm thinking in the new games that have good support for 6+ core CPUs, the 4670k/4690k will produce less performance than higher core count CPUs, even with the RX 580 unchanged, but that it will still be a very good price/performance ratio.

Perhaps with a 144Hz or more monitor, a more powerful/higher core count CPU than the 4670k/4690k would start to make sense (especially in newer games at higher settings), but I suspect for my 75Hz FreeSync monitor the extra power may be wasted.

From what research I've done the 4770k/4790k are quite a bit more expensive while not being much better in games when overclocked, compared to the 4670k/4690k.

Current system:

75Hz FreeSync Monitor
RX 580 Nitro+ 8GB VRAM
i5-750 overclocked @3.7GHz
16GB DDR3 RAM
2TB HDD (no SSD)
P7P55D Motherboard
HX750 Corsair PSU

I've read you can make newer Motherboards/CPUs work with Windows 7 (the main issue that has to be worked around being USB drivers not being installed or something, along with potentially having to use a PS/2 keyboard/mouse when installing the OS.. something along those lines, been a while since I read about that), but I suspect there could be compatibility issues that could rear their head at some point when using various software, or perhaps when trying to get some hardware to work properly, am I wrong about that?

If it would work perfectly once Windows 7 is up and running, I might consider getting a newer CPU/Mobo/RAM combo at some point.

But generally speaking, besides the cost of new RAM, moving to Windows 10 is something I want to avoid doing unless I'm putting it on a different computer (so I can always use Windows 7 if I prefer to as my main PC, but might use Windows 10 for DX12 support, and newer hardware support).

Last edited by dimeuno; 01-06-2019 at 09:49 AM.
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 01:45 AM
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Do the SSD, theyre cheap now, and the performance benefits are noticeable across all uses on your pc.

New ram was the entire reason I upgraded to a 6700k a couple of years ago. If you go browse Digital Foundry's Youtube backlog there are a few videos showing the effect ram speed has on fps, it's not a huge impact but usually enough to bump average frames by a noticeable amount. Seems like lots of open world type games love some fast ram, bethsoft and far cry come to mind.
i3
,
i5

As for windows 7, I've been running it since the upgrade and you are correct. I had to dig out a 12 year old ps/2 keyboard to get it up and running, but aside from most of my hardware being old junk now, it's been fine. The worry is if and when dx12 only titles come out, or drivers are no longer updated for older platforms (try finding nvidia/radeon drivers for XP or Vista).

Can't really comment on how much of an upgrade you'd see between the 2 platforms, seems like the cheapest option would be to grab an i7 in the same socket, but going that far back, i'm not entirely sure the performance would be where you want it.

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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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[Edit: I'm certainly interested in the possibility of getting Windows 7 to work with a new CPU/Mobo, assuming there won't be compatibility issues on the software/hardware end once Windows 7 is functioning on the new hardware. It might even be worth buying new RAM for, if I can also get something like an 8-core CPU. I think I read you can "slipstream?" USB drivers into Windows 7 or something so you don't even need a PS/2 keyboard.]

If this comparison is accurate the 4690k would be a significant upgrade for me: https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compar...90K/2773vs2432

I also did a little research yesterday and came across this video. They have the same CPU I'm interested and the same GPU I have.

The first game he plays is GTA5, during that and most/all of the other games he plays from what I remember, he gets around 60 fps (a bit above and below) much of the time.
My guess is if my CPU is even only 50% less powerful than the 4690k, that means if the CPU usage in that video goes over 66%, my CPU would be pegged at 100%, and performance would suffer (the stutters/hitching, at least in GTA5).

Since it regularly went over 66% throughout the GTA5 part, and most/all of the other games, it would probably be quite worthwhile to upgrade.

I do wonder if GTA5 would perform better installed on an SSD (mostly the stuttering/hitching, or if the CPU would resolve that).. or if it would just improve load times, and maybe streaming textures would appear faster/sooner.

Last edited by dimeuno; 01-08-2019 at 08:57 AM.
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 06:02 PM
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You can nest the usb 3 drivers you need into a win 7 install, iirc the problems i had were related to the actual windows install screen running off my flash drive. Some setting in the UEFi BIOS on my board (z170) I missed probably. A quick search leads right back here for installing on a z370 board.

I doubt GTA5 specifically would perform better with an ssd. There are a few games I've heard of with texture streaming issues where it would probably help, Arma and Rage come to mind. Anything that loads the worldspace in cells would probably see some benefits in terms of not hitching when it loads a new cell.

There's no doubt the 4670k is an upgrade. I guess if you can get the new board and cpu cheap enough it makes sense to upgrade that way. It just seems like if you're going to spend the money and do the work to move to a new platform, it would be more of an upgrade to go with something ddr4. Even if you moved to an i3 8350k, you'd still have a board and ddr4 when you wanted to upgrade your core count. Though a quad core to a quad core, is still kind of a lateral upgrade.


Pretty evenly matched, but, If you watch that on YT, the desc says theyre both running 2400mhz ram, which would be pretty well max for ddr3 and just over entry level for ddr4.

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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 06:11 PM
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Pretty much pointless going from 750 to 4690k nowadays. Either get 4770k or go straight for current gen but nothing lower than i5 8400 from Intels offer, get AMDs offer instead

Oh, and don't get suggested by UserBenchmark. Average scores by tons of different configurations has no representative and statistics value at all.

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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 06:21 PM
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If you want to play "latest and greatest" then 4c/4t will be not enough for nice experience. Otherwise if you can get an used i5 in good price and already have some good RAM it's still quite nice. Ulitmately it all ends with how much you can pay. Also, maybe it's worth to wait for the Zen2.
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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[Edit: I also just remembered, if I wanted to I could also (and I would probably choose to do this when I get an SSD eventually)
dual boot Windows 7 & Windows 10 right? That way I could have the best of both worlds on one PC.
I'd probably want to get like a 1TB SSD, so I'd have at least 500GB to work with for either OS to install games.]

So is a 4770k worth over $100 CAD more than a 4670k in terms of gaming performance? I've heard the extra threads make a difference in newer AAA games that use a lot of CPU power, but I'm not sure if it's enough to justify the price. For prices I've been checking Ebay, and ignoring any listings from China when they say the delivery will take up to like 50 days, I'd rather it be no more than like 14-21 days at most (the lower the better, but not if it means paying way more). I'm not in a rush to buy, in fact it will probably be quite a few months before I do (probably longer if I had to buy new RAM for a newer, more expensive CPU with a higher core count), but I'm planning ahead to decide what the best upgrade path will be.

If I buy relatively cheap, I'd be more comfortable upgrading sooner in terms of years from now. But if I pay a lot, I'd want to stay with that processor for up to like 8 years or more possibly, like I've done with my i5-750, so I'd probably want to move to something like an 8 core CPU in that case, to make sure I'm not missing out on a lot of performance years from now. Is Zen2 something I should wait for before I decide? Might be a good idea.

Is there better places than Ebay I should be checking for prices? I think "hardwareswap" on Reddit is one place I've seen recommended, but you've to be careful about certain things (like only paying through something protected where you can get your money back if scammed, like PayPal, and checking the person's sales history on the subreddit).

I do love the idea of getting a 6 or 8 core processor to be ready for the future, if I can afford it in a reasonable amount of time. Spending money on more RAM isn't appealing, but I'd do it if the performance increase moving to a newer high core count CPU were justified, and I could stay on Windows 7 without compatibility issues with various forms of software, and hardware plugged into the motherboard for example. Like I said earlier this is meant to be matched with an RX 580 8GB VRAM, I'm not sure if a CPU more powerful than the 4690k for example would make sense, but as I also said I suppose with the newer games pushing the CPU more, I may see a lot higher frame rates in those newer CPU intensive games were I to get a higher core count CPU, even if I stuck with the RX 580 for years to come (though I'm uncertain if this is true). And the more powerful (6 to 8 core) CPU would mean I wouldn't be bottlenecking a more powerful GPU were I to upgrade the GPU say 5 years from now.. hopefully.

The original goal for me was to get a big performance boost upgrading from my current overclocked i5-750, for minimal cost if possible (not having to replace RAM, which I've heard has a minimal performance impact in terms of frame rate between DDR3 to DDR4, and that RAM speeds also don't add up to much gaming performance difference; perhaps that's wrong if you take into consideration frame times/game smoothness, and not just frame rate, including both average and 0.1% lows?).

I think when I checked in the past I've seen as low as a $300 CAD total cost for a new mobo & CPU for the 4670k or 4690k on Ebay. I have some sense that I should lean towards the 4690k because they apparently have better thermals, I believe due to using better thermal paste, and I don't have any intention of delidding as long as the temperature of the CPU remains in a safe range, but I will be using my 212 heat sink to overclock.

I'm not sure if my 212 heat sink would be still usable on new Intel CPUs, I know it's compatible with the 4th generation ones. Also if I were to get Ryzen as far as I know they don't overclock well, so I probably wouldn't need better than the stock heat sink they provide (I've not done research to confirm this.. I also don't know if my 212 heat sink would work with a Ryzen CPU)? But from what I vaguely recall Ryzen CPUs provide great gaming performance for the price you pay (compared with the price of Intel CPUs vs performance). I've also seen some things that indicate Ryzen CPUs are better for things other than gaming.. but I'm not sure if they were taking into account how much gaming performance you get for how much the CPU costs vs Intel's offerings. I wouldn't be willing to pay like 30% more for a new Intel CPU if I wasn't also getting close to 30% more gaming performance over the Ryzen equivalent.

One other thing.. I've randomly come across claims by some people that Ryzen are somehow able to create more "smoothness" with less hitching/stuttering compared to modern Intel offerings.. I think something to do with the architecture of the CPUs. I'm not sure if it's true though, if it is it would be worth going Ryzen to me just for that reason. It could just be that the higher core count for either Intel or Ryzen creates enough extra performance to work with, that this "smoothness" is apparent and just as good regardless of which you choose (Intel or Ryzen). I dont have a preference in terms of brand, I just want the best performance per dollar, and to be ready for years to come were I to buy a newer CPU, rather than something like a 4670k/4690k to save money.

As far as the "smoothness" issue, it could be something related to frame times, or 0.1% lows in the frame rates as far as I know. But they may have been false claims by people with bias, to try to get more people to move to Ryzen. I have no allegiance, although I have liked AMD's business practices over the competition in both the CPU & GPU markets in recent times.

Anyways.. I think that's good for now. Thank you all for the responses so far!

Last edited by dimeuno; 01-10-2019 at 06:24 AM.
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 06:45 AM
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Personally, I would get an X3440 (or higher; it is essentially a lower clocked i7 860) for ~$20 USD on ebay. And then save the money you were going to spend on a new i5 for when you have more to throw at a better setup (assuming you still feel the need to).

An X3440 (heck even your i5) should not hold the 580 back too much and couple that with free sync, the missing performance should be even less of an issue. I would say it would be worth the $20 to see if you feel like you still need more performance. IIRC, they clock okay: I had mine anywhere from 4-4.2ghz. Add a cheap SSD and it will probably feel like a new platform in normal tasks/daily usage.

I would not spend that much on a dead-platform at this point in time (especially, if you are planning on using it for your main PC for awhile). Wait for the next round of AMD/Intel stuff and see what is in your price range and get the best you can afford.

As far as upgrades go, I would get the SSD ASAP(!), get a freesync monitor, and then see if your current CPU still 'feels' slow in games (do NOT look at what framerates you are getting until after you play with it a bit). $26 CAD on a super dead platform > $300 CAD on a less dead platform.

The CM212 will work with the Ryzen setup (with a bracket). You could probably contact CM to try to get them to send one to you (I know Noctua sends free mounts if you provide them with an invoice for both the cooler and the motherboard).
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 06:55 AM
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Ryzen represents an excellent value and the long lasting socket allows for upgrades down the road, if you decide to go that route. I personally keep my PC's for a long time and have chosen to go with an 8 core Ryzen as an upgrade from an i7-4790K. For the record, I paid $127 for a new Ryzen 7 1700X and it worked well with the 212 heatsink I had from my old processor.

Your hyper 212 heat sink will likely need a new bracket for the AMD processor. The bracket is $7 and available online from cooler master or amazon.

Zen 2 may not have a huge performance boost initially. It may very well be 2020 before the high performing Zen 2 processors are available for sale.

Ryzen is also compatible with Windows 7. There is even a utility supplied with my ASRock motherboard to add drivers to the install USB making setup easier.

As a gamer I am greatly enjoying my Ryzen processor.


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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 07:01 AM
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The Hyper 212 Evo is more than 10 years old and its not worth keeping or trying to fit on Ryzen and you are much better off getting a new CPU cooler
https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-...ernatives.html

The Cryorig H7 is a good option
And last if you are getting an SSD dont bother with an NVME SSD unless you will be working with or moving large files around

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