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Thread: UPS online vs line-interactive : BATTERY LIFESPAN differences? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-02-2019 12:28 PM
AllenG
Quote: Originally Posted by pulverizor View Post
good, thing I asked about FSP

so you think their lying about those stats on their site then? (that's a big legal risk they take)holyfook now that's a YUGE surprise iirc they were always suppose to be the main competitor of APC so you sure about that? unless their quality has taken a nosedive recently

anyway where I live greatest battery available is for APC (of course duh) followed by Eaton (far behind) so that leaves APC only I guess & tough luck they're the most expensive :/

I've pulled more Belkin and Cyberpower UPS for causing problems and not working properly than any other brands so far over from the 90's till now. I avoid them like the plague. Some Cyberpower hold up decently, some don't... it's usually a problem with the UPS itself and not the batteries too.

I just wish there could be a UPS running on commercially available batteries (ie. standard instead of proprietary) I mean technically that's possible right? and a company which does that would gain much better reputation so in the long run it'd be profitable for them
I have pulled more Belkin and Cyberpower UPS for causing issues and not working right than any other brands over the years. Usually it's a problem with the UPS itself, and not the batteries... The batteries are just casualties of a horrible UPS unfortunately. I will say, some cyberpower work well. I just wont buy or reccommend them. If someone has one and it works, i'll let them run it and even replace its batteries ever 2 1/2 years. If it does even one thing funny though, out to the trash it goes. Belkin, never though.

From past experiences with them I'd basically say i don't think, but know... atleast here in the US. FSP UPS aren't as common here, thats for sure. But i'd imagine a Republic of China company would send the same cost cutting copy product to all countries the same. Sure not where i'd hedge my bets.

In all actuality, alot of these UPS use a battery pack that consists of 2 or 4 commercially used batteries in parallel. You can actually buy the batteries individually if you feel like rebuilding the packs. I have done this a few times, it's not too bad. Check out batteriesplus online to look up your pack for your UPS and they will tell you which batteries are available for replacement to rebuild the pack.

There's no reason you couldn't, so long as you don't mind it looking like a monstrosity and are decent with electrical wiring. Basically, you could build your own powerwall in a multitude of ways. bmgjet did a pretty cool little system as he talked about a few posts back. All discussion about a UPS choice aside, it sounds like you are quite interested in this type of thing and want to learn... you should further research into power systems/backup generation and conditioning to get a further grasp of how everything works and maybe try to build your own setup in the future! In my case, i've dealt with power generation and storage systems in my line of work for years so i have a decent grasp, but still learning more and more everyday myself as i'm planning on building up my own setup in the hopefully nearer future.
01-02-2019 11:05 AM
pulverizor good, thing I asked about FSP

so you think their lying about those stats on their site then? (that's a big legal risk they take)
Quote: Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
Belkin also a never in my book.
holyfook now that's a YUGE surprise iirc they were always suppose to be the main competitor of APC so you sure about that? unless their quality has taken a nosedive recently

anyway where I live greatest battery available is for APC (of course duh) followed by Eaton (far behind) so that leaves APC only I guess & tough luck they're the most expensive :/


I just wish there could be a UPS running on commercially available batteries (ie. standard instead of proprietary) I mean technically that's possible right? and a company which does that would gain much better reputation so in the long run it'd be profitable for them
01-02-2019 10:54 AM
AllenG
Quote: Originally Posted by pulverizor View Post
? I think mine charge only up to 100% not beyond (charging stops after) so no overloading risk if that's even possible

but for the 50-75% how do I do that??? when on main power the battery always charges up to 100% there's no way to make the charging stop at a limit below 100% (I'd have to keep pulling the plug & re-plugging all the time for the battery to stay below 100% not very practical)


what do you make of this online UPS from the tech info they give?

https://www.fsp-europe.com/champ-tower-series-1k2k3k/


I found the 1k model for quite cheap at a retailer (a little over 300E ~300$) plus its surprisingly light for an online but maybe there's a catch (aside from replacement batteries not being available where I live they only sell APC & Eaton batteries)

You're confusing charge rate and load. Load is referring to how many watts of drain you have attached and running at any given time (If the UPS is rated for 900W, try to keep it's load in the 400-700watt range).

FSP in my book has always been a steer clear brand on all their products (I've tried some of their products over the years giving them a few chances, everytime was fully un-impressed). Cheap components and fake specifications. Need an example of one of those mfg's that gets you what you pay for? They're one of em. I won't even buy a PSU if it came from FSP, even if it was manufactured for another company. An "online" at the price of a line-interactive... as they say, if it seems too good to be true. Chances are it probably is.

If those are the replacement batteries readily available in your region, i'd say a UPS from one of them will be your best bet. Never had a problem with APC, Eaton, or Minuteman. Cyberpower has been hit and miss, more often than not their devices dont work when i need it to most... Belkin also a never in my book.
01-02-2019 07:14 AM
pulverizor
Quote: Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
Best way to not kill the batteries in UPS's is to not overload them, stay within 50-75% of their load range.
? I think mine charge only up to 100% not beyond (charging stops after) so no overloading risk if that's even possible

but for the 50-75% how do I do that??? when on main power the battery always charges up to 100% there's no way to make the charging stop at a limit below 100% (I'd have to keep pulling the plug & re-plugging all the time for the battery to stay below 100% not very practical)




Quote:
The answer to question 5... theoretically, yes any mfg could decide to short you if they wanted in the power conditioning. Again, sticking with trusted brands will help you avoid that. Buy cheap stuff, get cheap stuff... REALLY applies with UPS and power protection systems.
what do you make of this online UPS from the tech info they give?

https://www.fsp-europe.com/champ-tower-series-1k2k3k/


I found the 1k model for quite cheap at a retailer (a little over 300E ~300$) plus its surprisingly light for an online but maybe there's a catch (aside from replacement batteries not being available where I live they only sell APC & Eaton batteries)
01-02-2019 12:59 AM
AllenG Just use them and set them up correctly for your usage, most have settings you can fine tune like cutover voltage. Run the battery check every so often. Best way to not kill the batteries in UPS's is to not overload them, stay within 50-75% of their load range. Bottomline is that they do die, i usually replace every 2 1/2 years regardless of if it is still holding or not. It's not like a decent every day UPS is 800 bucks with $220 batteries anymore... The typical usage APC 1500VA is under $200 and batteries are dirt at ~$40. So cheap that since i just want it to "work" when i need it that as i said, i replace the batteries at 2 1/2 and even the whole ups at 5 years no matter what. It's cheap peace of mind that does the job for everyday user usage, compared to a real Online system. Even over a 10 year period.

The answer to question 5... theoretically, yes any mfg could decide to short you if they wanted in the power conditioning. Again, sticking with trusted brands will help you avoid that. Buy cheap stuff, get cheap stuff... REALLY applies with UPS and power protection systems.
01-01-2019 08:50 PM
pulverizor
Quote: Originally Posted by bmgjet View Post
A car does wear down faster if its not used vs one thats used daily but maintained.
Sticking with using car as a example. Sitting in the garage the oil doesnt get pumped around, all the bearings sit still and things start to rust up.
Where if you use it daily you dont get that rust building up.

Batterys are the same they need use, That cycling is part of the maintance.
alrite cars wrong example

how a out a PSU or a mainboard or a CPU that ain't used, there u go


anyway for an offline or line-in UPS what's the best way to extend battery life then - discharge them regulerly? (how often minimum/optimal?)
01-01-2019 06:04 PM
bmgjet A car does wear down faster if its not used vs one thats used daily but maintained.
Sticking with using car as a example. Sitting in the garage the oil doesnt get pumped around, all the bearings sit still and things start to rust up.
Where if you use it daily you dont get that rust building up.

Batterys are the same they need use, That cycling is part of the maintance.
01-01-2019 05:18 PM
pulverizor
Quote: Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
1. That is not quite the same as constantly working within that upper 25%, as you said it would just be worse for its main use case and still wouldn't change the battery life.

5. By nature of their design, most online type try their hardest to emulate a purer sinewave as their main job is to make everything see literally no difference between line power. That isn't to say that buying a cheap no name "Online" UPS might possibly net you a line-interactive masquerading as "Online". Rule of thumb, stick with companies that are dedicated to power backup systems.
thx² for the info

1- so basically a battery has to *work* to last longer?!? (that's counter intuitive that's like a car wearing down faster if kept in the garage) how is that possible??

5- but can a true online UPS still have a false/stepped sinewave output (theoretically)?
01-01-2019 03:09 PM
AllenG Cool and smart little setup you got there bmg!
01-01-2019 02:58 PM
bmgjet I use a online UPS with 2 pairs of 6 batterys in series as a poor mans power wall. Had the batterys going for 2 years now and no issue.
I mainly got a online UPS tho so I could tie my solar pannels into the battery pack since its always charging and then inverting the power back to AC.
So the charger turns its self off for a few hours when there is a good ammount of sun and the UPS is wired up to 80% of the house so all the important stuff still works when there is a power cut which is common where I live.
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