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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-04-2020 12:13 PM
Jakob27 Well, me nor my friend messed with the card, that's for sure. Must have been the original owner, he wouldn't have said anything though, probably just wanted to get rid of the card. My friend got a really good deal on it(should have been a sign right there maybe?). My friend didn't use it for games though, so he wasn't faced with the problem. Only much later he tried some games and they froze on him. And he has a really beefy system too, with a 1200W evga power supply. My system is mediocre now, but i didn't skimp on the components or power supply. It's a superflower leadex II 80+ Gold 650W.
I don't use any splitters, adapters and what not, it's all directly from de PS, and nothing else is improvised. Oh well, i guess the next step is to take it apart and take some measurements. Will keep you posted
07-04-2020 11:05 AM
Laithan
Quote: Originally Posted by Jakob27 View Post
My card has hynix memory. That means i need the F4 bioses. So, i should replace the D_D F10 bios with D_P F4 on the DVI-I side, and leave the other D_D F4 where it's at. Please confirm this. I really don't want to mess this up.
Yes, assuming you are aware of how to "switch" from DD to DP (vice versa) as there is no physical BIOS switch.


What I see from your logs is a power delivery problem. This is obvious from the PWR perfcaps but the log tells a more detailed story. Your GPU hasn't ever exceeded 70% TDP, which is basically showing that it is starved for power. Every time the GPU attempts to boost, which requires an increased power draw, it is unable to "pull" the power it needs and therefore repeatedly power throttles. This will cause the voltage to be unable to reach its highest capability as well, so the cause is lack of power and the side affect is limited voltage.

A 980Ti with the MUMOD BIOS is capable of drawing up to 475W of power maximum.. You'll almost never reach this but it is possible. 200W maximum for each 8-pin PCI-e cable and 75W maximum for the PCI-e slot. I forget (been a while) but I think the stock BIOS is limited to 300W max or something like that.

The attached excel spreadsheet (pivot tab) will help you see that at each GPU boost speed (Mhz) the power consumption never really exceeds 70%... where it would be normal to see well over 100% TDP (estimation is that you are losing 30%-50% overall power). Looking closer (you can play around with the pivot) you can also see that the power issue is present on both 8-pin PCI-e cables as well as the PCI-e slot. I could be wrong but this information tells me that you've likely got a hardware issue here. If it was showing a power delivery problem on one of the 3 sources of power then it could be a bad cable, bad PCI-e slot, MB needs PCI-e supplemental power etc... but when all three of the power sources are not able to utilize (pull) all of the power allowed and the GPU is complaining of being starved for power, there is literally something preventing the power delivery from occurring and I think it is hardware based.

It goes withouth saying, IF you are using any PCI-e splitters/adapters/combiners... DON'T... and of course the PSU needs to be beefy enough (750W bare minimum). All PCI-e cables should be a dedicated 8-pin, straight run to the PSU directly.

I can only guess as to what the true cause is but you can figure it out through process of elimination:
(1) Try the GPU in another PC if you can.. if you see the same behavior then you have ruled out the PSU, cables, MB etc all in one test. You never know.
(2) Inspect the PCI-e solder joints for any cold solders or cracked solder. A weak connection would appear to work @ idle but unable to pass a lot of current @ load.
(3) Remove the cooler and inspect the GPU. You may find a damaged component or I guess possibly the TIM/PADS could be missing/dried/cracked and something is quickly overheating (but I don't think so at this point). It cannot hurt to look.

Was a power shunt mod ever done to this card? I'm not suggesting that you do it (we can modify the BIOS, so it is not necessary) but if one was done, that should be removed.

Good luck and I hope you can get it sorted.
Let us know


/*!
* Power. Indicating perf is limited by total power limit.
*/
NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_POWER = 1,
/*!
* Thermal. Indicating perf is limited by temperature limit.
*/
NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_THERMAL = 2,
/*!
* Reliability. Indicating perf is limited by reliability voltage.
*/
NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_RELIABILITY = 4,
/*!
* Operating. Indicating perf is limited by max operating voltage.
*/
NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_OPERATING = 8,
/*!
* Utilization. Indicating perf is limited by GPU utilization.
*/
NV_GPU_PERF_POLICY_ID_SW_UTILIZATION = 16,
07-04-2020 08:17 AM
Jakob27 My card has hynix memory. That means i need the F4 bioses. So, i should replace the D_D F10 bios with D_P F4 on the DVI-I side, and leave the other D_D F4 where it's at. Please confirm this. I really don't want to mess this up.


Ok, before i do anything let me add a little context on how this card behaves:
I can run a game(Path of exile) without crashing, anything else i have including benchmarks don't make it, at stock clocks anyway(more on this later)
So, at stock clocks this game runs like this:



It switches between P-states constantly, alternating between P2 and P5 (no P0 in sight)
PerfCap reason pwr, pwr Vrel respectively.

I attached a GPU-Z log file for this: "GPU-Z POE Log"


Now, if i slightly downclock the card (-45mhz core, -101mhz memory) i don't get crashes, but the performance is crap in everything. This time it switches between state P0 and P5, but the P0 state clocks are definetly not right: see "GPU-Z underclock Log" for this.


Interestingly, if i run something that requires flash player(browser game, etc) gpu-z gives me this:
Steady clocks, P0 state at default clock speeds, no underclock here.





I tried to cheat it by running a 3D app while this flash player was in the background. Nope, i get ups and downs like before. Sigh :|. Soon as i leave the 3D app, clocks go stable as seen above.
I also attached a log file where i used gpu-z renderer to stress the card at stock speeds and have it crash. I don't know if it logged any hint about the crash, but i put it here anyway "GPU-Z Render Log"




Heaving said all this, do you think a custom bios would help me here? Both current bioses seem unaltered, except the ddF10 has some custom fan curve, but that's nothing to write home about.


07-03-2020 04:00 PM
Laithan
Quote: Originally Posted by Jakob27 View Post
Hi Laithan. As i understand you're quite the veteran regarding the 980ti g1 gaming. I would like to pick your brain on something...
I came in the possession of a Gigabyte 980TI G1 Gaming from a friend who himself bought it second hand. The card works... somewhat. I get almost instant/constant freezes in 3d applications which always require a 5 sec press of the shut-down button. I have the same outcome on both bioses. Temps are not the issue for sure, power supply is ok too. It does the same thing on a different system/configuration as well.

Reading the original post got me a little intrigued/worried:

"Flashing a DD BIOS to a DP slot or flashing a DP BIOS to a DD slot will partially brick the GPU. You SHOULD NOT flash an F4 version to an F10 GPU - You SHOULD NOT flash an F10 version to an F4 GPU".

Now here's the kicker:
The original owner messed with the BIOS and i have the following:
When connected through DVI-D i have bios version 84.00.36.00.6D which is DD/f4
When connected through DVI-I i have bios version 84.00.41.00.34 which is DD/f10
Happy day, right? :|
In the OP there's a pic with what bios goes where, and as i understand it DD goes to DVI-D and DP goes to DVI-I(please correct me if i'm wrong)

All i want is a normal stock card(for now anyway, overclocking not on my mind at this point, maybe later if i can get this thing to work properly)
How in the heck do i go about doing this? What bios goes where in my case?

Hi there... well, the good news is that it shouldn't really be a big deal but yeah it seems that someone didn't check to see which BIOS version the GPU had (stock) before flashing it with the MUMOD BIOS. You can use GPU-z to show you which kind of memory is on the board (assuming GPU-z isn't reading it FROM the BIOS... hmmm, not sure about that) otherwise you can see the memory type when you remove the cooler. This will likely be the most reliable way to determine which BIOS the GPU should have. Then you can just grab the stock BIOS from gigabyte (use NVFLASH v5.218). The reason that there are different BIOS' for the same card is primarily due to the brand/spec of memory used. This could be due to slightly different timings, voltages etc. because obviously if the same BIOS settings were "just fine" for all memory brands they would have used the same F4 BIOS for all but they don't so there is a reason to be using the correct one. The 980Ti's originally shipped with Hynix memory but later they released a Samsung version. All in all for the most part they are the same GPU so using the "wrong" BIOS is not going to really hurt anything except using the "wrong" memory settings for the memory actually installed on the GPU.

The danger is really never with what version of the BIOS is being used, but rather if the DD or DP BIOS is being used.... which can change automatically, based on the monitors connected/turned on/being used. If the DD BIOS is flashed to the DP slot (or vice versa) then some monitor outputs may not work appearing as if the GPU is bricked.

This is the Flex guide mapped to which BIOS
https://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2744214/


Sadly, the modified BIOS is likely not your issue.... assuming you are not overclocking at all (just hit RESET in MSI AB, max both sliders and you'll be @ default clocks because it is already much higher than a stock BIOS) it could be many things but with a used card that is this old, the first thing I would do is disassemble the cooler (it is SUPER easy and fast) and replace the TIM and thermal pads on the GPU. You can get some decent pads from Thermal Grizzly or EK. I have seen this cause all kinds of issues if it is dried/cracked and creating hotspots that cannot be measured in software.

I think I used .5mm for the VRM and 1.0mm pads for the memory.

Good luck, let us know how you make out
07-03-2020 08:45 AM
Jakob27 Hi Laithan. As i understand you're quite the veteran regarding the 980ti g1 gaming. I would like to pick your brain on something...
I came in the possession of a Gigabyte 980TI G1 Gaming from a friend who himself bought it second hand. The card works... somewhat. I get almost instant/constant freezes in 3d applications which always require a 5 sec press of the shut-down button. I have the same outcome on both bioses. Temps are not the issue for sure, power supply is ok too. It does the same thing on a different system/configuration as well.

Reading the original post got me a little intrigued/worried:

"Flashing a DD BIOS to a DP slot or flashing a DP BIOS to a DD slot will partially brick the GPU. You SHOULD NOT flash an F4 version to an F10 GPU - You SHOULD NOT flash an F10 version to an F4 GPU".

Now here's the kicker:
The original owner messed with the BIOS and i have the following:
When connected through DVI-D i have bios version 84.00.36.00.6D which is DD/f4
When connected through DVI-I i have bios version 84.00.41.00.34 which is DD/f10
Happy day, right? :|
In the OP there's a pic with what bios goes where, and as i understand it DD goes to DVI-D and DP goes to DVI-I(please correct me if i'm wrong)

All i want is a normal stock card(for now anyway, overclocking not on my mind at this point, maybe later if i can get this thing to work properly)
How in the heck do i go about doing this? What bios goes where in my case?
06-26-2020 06:37 PM
Laithan
Quote: Originally Posted by evarty View Post
You have true patience. Gratz on the big boy 2080 TI, wife will not let me spend that kind of cash but I'm glad you got one yourself. I remember reading this when there were only 50 pages, exciting times!

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction regarding the download. Slightly embraced that I thought there were newer ones later on(not sure why I thought that). Good news is those are the ones I've been using for a little over a year now.

As for your request, TimeSpy is in ?!? so check it out. I'll add both single and SLI.

I'll be following you for sure, and your next purchase.
Take care!
Nah, never needed to update them, did all the testing in beta

I didn't think of using the 3DM DB, good idea. The CPU used makes a huge difference. I actually found a comparison that is sort of interesting. I have an E5-1680V2, it is an 8 core/16 thread unlocked CPU which is IVY-e. I didn't find anyone else with the same CPU as me with a 1660Ti so I went up to Haswell with the 5960X which is also an 8 core/16 thread and they are back to back generations and have similar specs. Unfortunatly my test was with SLI so I don't have a single GPU score but if we just assume 100% SLI utilization (generous) and double the scores of the competitor, it is a somewhat close comparison. I was able to clock my 980Ti's @ 1600Mhz easy.

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/18731792/fs/17174849

06-26-2020 04:55 PM
evarty
Quote: Originally Posted by Laithan View Post

It's been a fun ride. Ty, I really appreciate your kind words.

I just sold my 980Ti's, few pages back I gave the final goodbye to the original GPUs. I've got a 2080Ti now only because I'm primarily using 4K now but for 1080p the 980Ti is still top notch. I'd love to see a 980Ti w/MUMOD O/C -vs- GTX 1660 Ti/Super.

The original release is the latest and what is also posted in the OP I kept it updated (before the site migration, now it is a mess lol).

Any questions be happy to help.
You have true patience. Gratz on the big boy 2080 TI, wife will not let me spend that kind of cash but I'm glad you got one yourself. I remember reading this when there were only 50 pages, exciting times!

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction regarding the download. Slightly embraced that I thought there were newer ones later on(not sure why I thought that). Good news is those are the ones I've been using for a little over a year now.

As for your request, TimeSpy is in ?!? so check it out. I'll add both single and SLI.

I'll be following you for sure, and your next purchase.
Take care!
06-26-2020 04:26 PM
Laithan
Quote: Originally Posted by evarty View Post
Seriously, after all these years you are still doing this? All the Kudos to you. You dedication is truly an inspiration. I'm still with my 980TI G1 and she's served me well. Did I mention her ASIC Quality is 84.3%? ...Anyway,

I'm sure Navi or Ampere are going to be fantastic so I'm revisiting your thread to see if I can push my baby a bit further ONE LAST TIME. I've been reading through it and I'm page 143(MUMOD V4) but started at 80. I'm looking for your latest\last MUMOD BIOS (D_P).

Possibly point me in the right direction?
Thank you again for your YEARS of dedication.

It's been a fun ride. Ty, I really appreciate your kind words.

I just sold my 980Ti's, few pages back I gave the final goodbye to the original GPUs. I've got a 2080Ti now only because I'm primarily using 4K now but for 1080p the 980Ti is still top notch. I'd love to see a 980Ti w/MUMOD O/C -vs- GTX 1660 Ti/Super.

The original release is the latest and what is also posted in the OP I kept it updated (before the site migration, now it is a mess lol).

Any questions be happy to help.
06-26-2020 02:42 PM
evarty
Quote: Originally Posted by Laithan View Post
Hi there, no... but I do remember there being a "fire" something app that is needed (you probably alread know about it). You can take any one of the 980Ti AIR BIOS' in the first post and open it side by side with a copy of your BIOS. If you did not unlock your BIOS yet to reveal the hidden sliders then that must be done first. If you need help unlocking it let me know.
Seriously, after all these years you are still doing this? All the Kudos to you. You dedication is truly an inspiration. I'm still with my 980TI G1 and she's served me well. Did I mention her ASIC Quality is 84.3%? ...Anyway,

I'm sure Navi or Ampere are going to be fantastic so I'm revisiting your thread to see if I can push my baby a bit further ONE LAST TIME. I've been reading through it and I'm page 143(MUMOD V4) but started at 80. I'm looking for your latest\last MUMOD BIOS (D_P).

Possibly point me in the right direction?
Thank you again for your YEARS of dedication.
06-19-2020 05:21 PM
Laithan
Quote: Originally Posted by panosxidis View Post
Hello i have SLI zotac amp extremes 980ti you have custom bios??thanks a lot
Hi there, no... but I do remember there being a "fire" something app that is needed (you probably alread know about it). You can take any one of the 980Ti AIR BIOS' in the first post and open it side by side with a copy of your BIOS. If you did not unlock your BIOS yet to reveal the hidden sliders then that must be done first. If you need help unlocking it let me know.
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