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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-16-2019 10:53 AM
Molitro That's precisely what I read, yes.

Thanks.
06-16-2019 10:23 AM
AlphaC
Quote: Originally Posted by Molitro View Post
Just to be able to make the decision a bit better, both if I'll go x470 or x570 and the RAM.
I did see dual rank overclocks worse, but how much we're talking? I'm not interested in pushing the RAM to the top anyway. Say, will the typical 3200 CL14 2x16 do 3600 CL16, which seems to be a good spot for Zen2, for example?
People have gotten the 16GB sticks to 2933MHz if I remember correctly


Even with single sided B-die most 2nd gen chips can only do 3466-3533MHz.

Quote: Originally Posted by https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-memory-tweaking-overclocking-guide/3.html

And what about dual-rank DIMMs? By comparison, results of overclocking dual-rank RAM configurations are pretty sad at the moment. The memory controller has difficulty handling four ranks right now. I was able to achieve 3400 MHz CL14 with Samsung b-die memory modules and 3600 MHz CL16 with Hynix CJR memory modules. Based on my testing, the only upside to using four ranks is the impressive capacity increase and alternation because of the ranks technology, which increases system performance in games.
06-16-2019 09:28 AM
VeritronX Buildzoid let slip that something new is also being powered by the soc vrm with the new chips and could affect overclocking (skip to 41:35)

06-16-2019 12:46 AM
Molitro
Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
16GB sticks are probably dual rank B-die which isn't going to clock as easily. Usually when people talk about B-die it's 2x8GB 3600C15/3200C14/3600C16.

Ryzen 3rd gen might have fixed most of the problems with memory compatability since they moved most if not all boards to daisy chain and also since B-die is being discontinued they have incentive to optimize for Hynix (3600C19 cjr supposedly works decent on Ryzen) or Micron.
Just to be able to make the decision a bit better, both if I'll go x470 or x570 and the RAM.
I did see dual rank overclocks worse, but how much we're talking? I'm not interested in pushing the RAM to the top anyway. Say, will the typical 3200 CL14 2x16 do 3600 CL16, which seems to be a good spot for Zen2, for example?
06-14-2019 07:28 PM
Heuchler newer AMDchipset drivers v19.10.16 on X570 Taichi then on official AMD site [19.10.0429]
https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Taichi/#Download
06-14-2019 04:01 PM
Nighthog I hadn't really paid attention what 1H2L meant for the Gaming X before, but it's obvious now. It's their usual style of using 1 High side MOS and 2 low side MOS like they did about on all their other than top tier boards on B350/x370 & B450/X470.

So they use two chokes as well per 1L2H combo? So really just 7-phase total... Their usual shenanigans to seem more powerful than it is. 5phase for CPU and 2 for SOC then[5+2]. A little different than their older style 4+3 combination with the other older PWM controller.
So much weaker than I thought it was. I was constantly thinking dual-setup with 2x2 on high/low.
06-14-2019 11:29 AM
AlphaC The Gaming X isn't a 12 phase if the Google Doc from Matthew is correct. Says 10 phase for VCore 1H2L = doubled low side 5 phase unless it's wrong and actually 10 phase 2H2L Powerpaks. As it's gaming oriented there should have been at least ALC892 (B450 tomahawk level) or ALC1200 (see x570 TUF plus) , instead of that shoddy ALC887 since I doubt it is less than $170. It really dilutes their branding so it's good that it's not an Aorus product. MSI got the message and clearly segments "MEG" / "MPG" and "MAG" ; Asus continues to add ROG to their STRIX lineup even though it adds useless letters and isn't a true ROG product.

The Aorus Elite is far more cut down this time: it's not just heatsink wise, it also loses IR3553 in favor of Vishay powerstage , Dual BIOS, USB-C output, ALC1220, etc. Granted the price difference is more than $10 as on Z390 , along the lines of $50 cheaper I think vs Aorus Pro?

Vishay powerstage supposedly has better thermal conductivity than IR3553 so maybe it evens out the difference between Aorus Pro/Elite as well as competing Asus STRIX/TUF. I suspect IR3553/IR3555 are better in terms of transient, otherwise why would Asus and Gigabyte use it on higher end boards?

Also, the drop down of the capacitors to the Apaq 5K hour means a 85°C temp = equivalent to lifetime of 105°C with FP caps that are 10K hour (-20°C = roughly double capacitor life) which is why the decision to use finned heatsink in Aorus Pro/Ultra is more of a necessity.
(That's totally fine on the Pro which is competing against the STRIX which have 5K hour Apaq as well rebranded to "MIL" , MSI Pro Carbon that comes with Dual-N fets + no heatpipe so even if it is using Japanese 12K hour capacitors its worse , so it really comes down to how much the Taichi costs with its 12x Vishay powerstages and 12K FP caps)

I don't think it's unreasonable to ditch all the bottom of barrel cheap oriented boards on X570 since it's obvious that it's going to be more expensive than B550. B550 supposedly isn't going to have the PCIE 4.0 from chipset. Apparently motherboard companies don't think so and you get boards like the X570 Pro4 and X570 Gaming Plus which are glorified B450-level boards with PCIe 4.0 tacked on. If the MSI leaked pricing is correct, the X570 Gaming Plus shouldn't exist when the X570 Edge is below 20 Euro difference before VAT , there should have just been a non-wifi model to streamline SKUs and cut down on product lines.
06-14-2019 10:39 AM
asdkj1740 the head of gigabyte motherboard division introduces x570s and pcie4 ssd


1. basically he has the same view of asus on the benefits of no doublers being used. and he also said true 14 phases (with doublers) is a good solution.

2. gigabyte is now trying to aviod the plastic i/o cover covering part of (if not all) the vrm heatsink, in order to increase heat dissipation. x570 aorus elite got the proper cutout on the i/o cover for the vrm heatsink.

3. gigabyte brings down the fin array heatsink design from high end lineup to mainstream. x570 aorus pro has got significant upgrade like fin array heatsink design over the previous generation eg z390 aorus pro.
06-14-2019 10:21 AM
Molitro
Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
16GB sticks are probably dual rank B-die which isn't going to clock as easily. Usually when people talk about B-die it's 2x8GB 3600C15/3200C14/3600C16.
I see.
I'm still thinking on wether or not go to 32 gigs instead of 16.

Thanks.
06-14-2019 09:59 AM
AlphaC
Quote: Originally Posted by Molitro View Post
I'm starting the quest for DDR4 as I'm gonna go Zen2 in July, and since I hadn't been following the RAM situation with Ryzen I'm pretty out of the loop and got a bit blindsided by all this.
Of course now I find out b-dies are the best, but they're not producing them any more, all the ups and downs about the importance of getting the frecuency+timings right in Ryzen (although apparently will be less so in Zen2), etc... and in general don't know what to choose (or even if I should buy already if I see a nice set), or even the actual importance of getting a good set over a cheaper one (how much performance gain are we talking really with a good RAM over say a set and forget 3200 CL16?).

I quoted you since you seem to know about all this, but, for example, would a Trident Z 2x16GB 3200 CL14 for about 290€ be a good buy? Seems so, I think it's the cheapest 32GB set of, I'm guessing, b-dies I've seen.
Is it that much different for the common mortal over say a 2x16 Trident Z (RGB this time, not that I care) 3200 16-18-18 for 210€?
I mean, I'm willing to spend the extra given how much time they'll be with me (or even the extra resell value), I just don't know enough about the situation still
16GB sticks are probably dual rank B-die which isn't going to clock as easily. Usually when people talk about B-die it's 2x8GB 3600C15/3200C14/3600C16.

Ryzen 3rd gen might have fixed most of the problems with memory compatability since they moved most if not all boards to daisy chain and also since B-die is being discontinued they have incentive to optimize for Hynix (3600C19 cjr supposedly works decent on Ryzen) or Micron.

Quote: Originally Posted by Shenhua View Post
What about the b450 mortar, tomahawk a and pro carbon? Are they T-Topology or daisy chain? How would you rank them regarding RAM OC.
Pretty sure that the Pro Carbon can overclock memory decently at least to 3466 officially, but the Mortar is iffy. https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/supp...support-mem-14
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/supp...support-mem-14 --- 3466 is still listed

Attachment 274486
Attachment 274488

I think it's T-topology on those boards since there's bends in the memory traces and on the back it appears all 4 slots are direct to the CPU. I wouldn't count on the Mortar for memory overclocking as it is also a 4 DIMM board on mATX so there has to be either a thicker PCB or clever routing of signals, which is unlikely since it's a budget board.

(https://www.hd-tecnologia.com/review...pro-carbon-ac/ , https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/mo...rtar-review/1/)


Some more searching:

https://www.computerbase.de/forum/th...unity.1829356/
Quote:
As a good starting point for RAM-OC, I see the following boards.

Spoiler!


The MSI B450 GPC & Tomahawk are the so-called budget boards and officially support 3466 OC.
How well these boards really can cut off due to the lack of experience yet to be answered.


Of course, the ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero is a great board, but I find it very expensive for the mainstream platform.

EDIT 19.10.2018: The Asus ROG Strix B450 F Gaming has been removed from the list due to modest VRM cooling. In pure gaming or moderate OC, the board is OK so far, but for the current price, there is too little delivered.


https://www.hardwareluxx.de/communit...n-1216557.html
from QVL
Quote:
3600+
ASUS ROG Strix X470-I Gaming
ASUS ROG Strix B450-I Gaming
ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero
ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero WIFI

MSI X470 Gaming M7 AC



3533/3600
ASRock Fatal1ty X370 Gaming-ITX/ac (1)
ASRock X370 Taichi (1)
ASRock X470 Taichi (1)
ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate

ASUS Prime X470-Pro
ASUS ROG Strix X370-I Gaming
ASUS ROG Strix X370-F Gaming (1)
ASUS ROG Strix X470-F Gaming
ASUS ROG Strix B350-I Gaming
ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming

ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero
ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero WIFI
ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero Extreme

Gigabyte B450 I Aorus Pro WIFI
Gigabyte Aorus GA-AX370-Gaming K7
Gigybyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WIFI

MSI B450M Mortar (1)
MSI B450M Mortar Titanium
MSI B450 Tomahawk (1)
MSI X470 Gaming Pro Carbon (1)
(I removed the TUF B450 and Asrock B450 which have weaker VRM than Tomahawk)



On page 7, Taichi is listed as T-topology but able to push 3533MHz: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/...g_Guide/7.html
-----
https://www.overclock.net/forum/379-...l#post28004354
From Hale59's links

The Asus WS Ace seems to be running 12x IR3555 (AP1405 PWM = IR35201?) , TUF plus seems to be 12x SiC639 on a mediocre heatsink but it's 7 of 12 on the left heatsink so it should be alright
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