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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-13-2019 08:48 AM
edhutner
Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
I see. I edited my last post and put in other stuff after you replied, by the way.
Ok enjoy your vacation. But yeah your logs are showing a 0.8 mOhm loadline for LLC6 and a 1.0 (approximate) Loadline for LLC5. LLC6 is supposed to be -75% reduced vdroop or 0.4 mOhms (intel spec is 1.6 mOhms on this 8 core SKU which is equal to LLC2. LLC1 is 2.1 mOhms--which is for 4 and 6 core Intel spec).

If clear cmos doesn't help fix this calibration, you may need to use LLC7 for 0.4 mOhms (you would have to post bios set voltage, LLC level, load "Amps" current and load voltage for me to calculate it).
You are correct. I edited my first post (was llc6 instead of the correct llc4)

I made some calculations. Please check the screenshot in this post. Generally what I see is:
llc4 ~ 1.3 mOhm
llc5 ~ 1 mOhm
llc6 ~ 0.4 mOhm


Does this seems normal? Can I have confidence that my board is not fault and continue forward with OC attempts
BTW I delided the 9900k and put a copper IHS heatsink that gave me about 9 degrees at stock frequencies under heavy stress. I wanted to go direct die, but I found out that my cooler is not suitable. The block of the Arctic Liquid Freezer II does not have enough clearance and touches the capacitors around the cpu.

In this relation the above calculations are not very precise because I noticed that the current is varying from the temperature, but the vcore not. I mean copper relid vs stock, same test, same settings - both result in same vcore, but the average current for the delided is some amps lower (in the screenshot it is id 1020 and id 1060).
12-12-2019 06:52 PM
smilinjohn
Quote: Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post
Sorry bud, wish I could help - but have not had the problem at all (win 7 on a asrock x470 board is a nightmare story tho - have to edit th ewindows installer with NTLite)

Yea no thanks I'll stick to W10, unless I get an old machine then I have a W7 installer CD that'll do the job


Quote: Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post
So... USB 2.0 only (the 3.0 drivers are not yet installed), use a 2.0 port if there are any, USB installer created with a W10 rig using media creation tool...

I'll keep this in mind, can't say if it failed on USB 2.0 because I just plug it into a port. The USB installer I use is 2.0 though.



Quote: Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post
wired mouse and keyboard.

That's all I use setting up a new PC, if a customer wants me to install a wireless I make them bring it and install it after I push all of the OS updates, and other software, a wireless setup is the last thing I install.



Quote: Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post
If that don't work, after using the bios SSD tool... damn. Like you I think, I hate porting OS images from other installs. They're just not "clean".


Eh... I don't mind porting them from setting them up on a different board, the PIA is having to get all the parts out to setup essentially a second computer, AND THEN I have to tear it all down and pack it away again. I live in a small studio apartment so I don't have a test bench setup and all my spare parts are packed in a tote. The OS never seems to mind the switch, just wait to install product keys until you have in on the platform to which it will run. But I shouldn't have to jump through such hoops to get a OS to work on a board, makes me almost want to buy a different brand than deal with the headache.


But while I wait on parts for the build on the bench now (ASRock) I took my spare WD Blue M.2 and installed W10 on it today just on the off chance that I'll need it in the near future for my main rig since I'm selling my only non ASUS board.
12-12-2019 06:15 PM
Jpmboy
Quote: Originally Posted by smilinjohn View Post
Not doing anything different on the Asus boards than I'm doing on ASRock, MIS, or Gygabyte boards. Plug in the USB/boot computer/load BIOS/boot override USB/Windows installs. I've even let it boot straight into the installer without forcing it in BIOS.
Yes I've tried that and I've tried letting the Windows installer wipe and format the drive.
A USB that fails to install Windows on the 3 ASUS boards I've had this issue with has successfully installed it on all the other boards, it even reinstalled it on a Surface Pro tablet.
Surely to the gods I'm not the only one having this issue
Sorry bud, wish I could help - but have not had the problem at all (win 7 on a asrock x470 board is a nightmare story tho - have to edit th ewindows installer with NTLite)
So... USB 2.0 only (the 3.0 drivers are not yet installed), use a 2.0 port if there are any, USB installer created with a W10 rig using media creation tool... wired mouse and keyboard. If that don't work, after using the bios SSD tool... damn. Like you I think, I hate porting OS images from other installs. They're just not "clean".

12-12-2019 03:47 PM
edhutner @Falkentyne
I also had made an error - scenario (A) were typo llc6 - in fact it was llc4. Edited my post.
Here I prepared the files (CSV logs and screenshots from hwinfo log viewer)
p.s. I forgot to add, I did initially updated the bios to 1602 and then did reset/clean cmos from the button on the back.
12-12-2019 03:28 PM
smilinjohn
Quote: Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post
Yeah, you're doing something wrong somehow. W10 installs straight up on the 6 asus boards (and 2 gigabyte, 2 asrock) boards running here,

Not doing anything different on the Asus boards than I'm doing on ASRock, MIS, or Gygabyte boards. Plug in the USB/boot computer/load BIOS/boot override USB/Windows installs. I've even let it boot straight into the installer without forcing it in BIOS.



Quote: Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post
Did you use try using the disk format/cleaner from within the ASUS bios?

Yes I've tried that and I've tried letting the Windows installer wipe and format the drive.



A USB that fails to install Windows on the 3 ASUS boards I've had this issue with has successfully installed it on all the other boards, it even reinstalled it on a Surface Pro tablet.


Surely to the gods I'm not the only one having this issue
12-12-2019 02:49 PM
Falkentyne
Quote: Originally Posted by edhutner View Post
Hi Falkentyne. Thanks for responding Currently I cannot do screenshots. I am on vacation, but before I leave I copied all hwinfo logs to my laptop for analyzing. I will attach some here.
Yes it was 40k fft fma3.
I see. I edited my last post and put in other stuff after you replied, by the way.
Ok enjoy your vacation. But yeah your logs are showing a 0.8 mOhm loadline for LLC6 and a 1.0 (approximate) Loadline for LLC5. LLC6 is supposed to be -75% reduced vdroop or 0.4 mOhms (intel spec is 1.6 mOhms on this 8 core SKU which is equal to LLC2. LLC1 is 2.1 mOhms--which is for 4 and 6 core Intel spec).

If clear cmos doesn't help fix this calibration, you may need to use LLC7 for 0.4 mOhms (you would have to post bios set voltage, LLC level, load "Amps" current and load voltage for me to calculate it).
12-12-2019 02:47 PM
edhutner
Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
Please post the HWINFO64 screenshot with the "Asus EC" window open with the "CPU Current" and "CPU Power" settings, as well as the vcore values.
Post the BIOS set voltage as well that you set there and the LLC like you did before.

That is a lot of vdroop but that also depends on how much current you're pulling. If that's small FFT FMA3, it could be, but that ALSO depends on what "mOhms" LLC4 and LLC5 are setting in your BIOS.

I just saw a user who set LLC7 on his Maximus XI Hero, which was setting 0.4 mOhms of VRM Loadline. LLC7 is usually much closer to 0.2 mOhms (85% reduced vdroop, based on a 1.6 mOhm baseline), not 0.4 mOhm (which is 75% reduced vdroop based on 1.6 mOhms).
Hi Falkentyne. Thanks for responding Currently I cannot do screenshots. I am on vacation, but before I leave I copied all hwinfo logs to my laptop for analyzing. I will attach some here.
Yes it was 40k fft fma3.
12-12-2019 02:36 PM
Falkentyne
Quote: Originally Posted by edhutner View Post
@Jpmboy
It's manual voltage. Ac/dc is set to 1/1 in bios (I think is not playing here at all, since i have disabled svid and communication between cpu and vrm). Regarding the needed voltage - i have not tested non avx, the both scenario i test are avx (i just want to cover worst case scenario).

I have read your guide and see that you got much lower vdroop.
I believe that 8700k has lower power draw. And probably also the stress tests in the guide used to establish the required voltage are not so stressful to cause such high drop or may be my board is having an issue
Please post the HWINFO64 screenshot with the "Asus EC" window open with the "CPU Current" and "CPU Power" settings, as well as the vcore values.
Post the BIOS set voltage as well that you set there and the LLC like you did before.

That is a lot of vdroop but that also depends on how much current you're pulling. If that's small FFT FMA3, it could be, but that ALSO depends on what "mOhms" LLC4 and LLC5 are setting in your BIOS.

I just saw a user who set LLC7 on his Maximus XI Hero, which was setting 0.4 mOhms of VRM Loadline. LLC7 is usually much closer to 0.2 mOhms (85% reduced vdroop, based on a 1.6 mOhm baseline), not 0.4 mOhm (which is 75% reduced vdroop based on 1.6 mOhms).

Looking at your post above, it looks a LOT like your LLC levels are messed up. Like, LLC6 is using the LLC5 values and LLC5 is using the LLC4 values.
Your LLC6 seems to be 0.8 mOhms of loadline, which is definitely *NOT* what @criskoe got when he tested LLC6 on his (Apex or XI Extreme--I forgot what board he had).

I saw someone on the Asus forums complain several months back (again dont remember if it was a Hero, Gene or Formula) about very excessive vdroop at LLC6 on his 9900k. He RMA'd the board for another of the exact same model and the new board had significantly less vdroop at the exact same BIOS settings.

Have you tried doing a complete CMOS clear?

These are the Gene results for vdroop by Elmor.
https://elmorlabs.com/index.php/2019...ne-visualized/

Pretty safe to say LLC6 was not using a 0.8 mOhm loadline in those shots.
12-12-2019 02:08 PM
edhutner @Jpmboy
It's manual voltage. Ac/dc is set to 1/1 in bios (I think is not playing here at all, since i have disabled svid and communication between cpu and vrm). Regarding the needed voltage - i have not tested non avx, the both scenario i test are avx (i just want to cover worst case scenario).

I have read your guide and see that you got much lower vdroop.
I believe that 8700k has lower power draw. And probably also the stress tests in the guide used to establish the required voltage are not so stressful to cause such high drop or may be my board is having an issue
12-12-2019 01:52 PM
Jpmboy
Quote: Originally Posted by smilinjohn View Post
I'm still having issues with installing Windows on Asus boards any Asus board...
First it was a Strix, then a Maximus, eariler this week it was a Strix Z290 board.
I've built computers in the last month with Asus, MSI, Gigabite, and ASRock boards.
When building with Asus boards and ONLY Asus boards, EVERY TIME I have had to use my ASRock board to format a drive with Windows then transfer that drive to the Asus board.
Gonna have to replace the ASRock since I sold it today.
Yeah, you're doing something wrong somehow. W10 installs straight up on the 6 asus boards (and 2 gigabyte, 2 asrock) boards running here, Did you use try using the disk format/cleaner from within the ASUS bios?
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