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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-16-2020 09:58 PM
JackCY
Quote: Originally Posted by smoke2 View Post
I returned the monitor.
I owned S32D850 which was also 32" VA panel but much sharper and with better viewing angles than 850F.
Now Im stuck between two monitors.
Acer XB321HK (4K, IPS, G-Sync, but only 60Hz) or Dell S3220DGF (2K, VA, Curved, Freesync 2, but with occasional flickering).
I probably can also buy some 144Hz IPS panel, but only in 27" and would not very much like go into 27" after 32".
Both above are for the same price.
S3220DGF should have sharper text than 850F according to rtings review, but how much?
And main question is if today is 60Hz monitor with G-Sync usable for gaming or it has no sense nowadays?
Yeah Samsung VAs have different viewing angles, some better some worse.
I've probably commented something about the Dell before, don't remember anymore, if it's curved then personally I would not want it at all or if it suffers from some flickering in Async mode.
Neither do I want to go down to 27" after having 3 different 32" monitors and 2 different 27". The 1440p/27" PPI doesn't agree with me nor does the overall small size in comparison.
Sharpness comparison, don't know.
I'm on 75 Hz and for me it's OK, sure I would love 1000 Hz but can't have that can I? So I run all games locked to around 73 fps and Async mode (76.1 Hz refresh).
60 Hz is definitely slower and in Async mode you would probably need to run around 57 fps in Async mode not not get almost any tearing if the graphical output from game/program is reasonably stable. Personally I would not find this satisfactory but if you're not CPU or GPU limited at such low fps and instead are running on an fps limiter, then the latency should not be as atrocious as when GPU limited and dropping that low.
Any extra Hz helps, that's for sure.
03-16-2020 08:52 AM
smoke2
Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
1) Not as far as I know.
2) Disable clear type but leave "smooth edges of screen fonts" enabled. This should render all fonts as they were meant to be, sharp fonts are sharp but smoothed fonts will be smoothed for where they are used in the Windows UI. ClearType messes with subpixels, adding blur and color fringing.

If you want A) then disable ClearType:



There is some sharpness adjustment or so I've been told and remember but it didn't seem to have a neutral sharpness setting, maybe you can adjust it to be sharpened instead of blurred, sadly some monitors are like that and offer no neutral setting.
3) Don't remember which flat monitor it was but yes some flat monitors are visibly bent You can take a long straight ruler, such as a metal ruler and check the panel carefully. It can be that the corners are bent a bit so the panel is turning a little to a surface of a sphere.
I'm usually more annoyed by missing pixels on sides of monitors that are too deep and their backlight doesn't extend far enough to sides = the edges of panel are not backlit especially if you sit closer than 1 m away. Eizotest.exe has a test pattern for this to check it quickly and easily.

50 cm is very close. Try to stay with eyes away from monitor around 75 cm.
I never use monitors with top edge at my eye level, my neck would fall off from looking down all the time. As far as I know and my experience is about 3/4 height to eye level works well though 2/3 may be better especially for gaming. Depends on your chair too though if you can easily look up a little or not.

I use relatively low brightness, especially for web/text with white backgrounds, even on a large monitor under 120 cd/m2, around 70 cd/m2. But for smaller, 27" let alone 24" (50 or less cd/m2) I was using even less as the eyes don't adjust as much since the screen is considerably smaller. Adjusting your room lighting also can make a big difference for this. If you blast it in a pitch black room, of course it will tyre your eyes, been there, done that with the VAs with wider gamut and it really is tiring.
I returned the monitor.
I owned S32D850 which was also 32" VA panel but much sharper and with better viewing angles than 850F.
Now Im stuck between two monitors.
Acer XB321HK (4K, IPS, G-Sync, but only 60Hz) or Dell S3220DGF (2K, VA, Curved, Freesync 2, but with occasional flickering).
I probably can also buy some 144Hz IPS panel, but only in 27" and would not very much like go into 27" after 32".
Both above are for the same price.
S3220DGF should have sharper text than 850F according to rtings review, but how much?
And main question is if today is 60Hz monitor with G-Sync usable for gaming or it has no sense nowadays?
03-13-2020 05:25 PM
JackCY Win10 and probably all modernish Win really use font smoothing for desktop icon name text. So even with CT disabled they are still smoothed because it uses one of those fonts that will be smoothed. You can adjust CT in a wide range to be thin or bold or anywhere in between.

Changing fonts and customizing UI used to be very simple and accessible:



Nowadays you gotta edit registry and if a new "Metro/Modern" UI exists it takes the whole screen and has less customization available. https://www.windowscentral.com/how-c...ont-windows-10

If you're getting no difference on desktop icon text when enabling/disabling font smoothing with the default Segoe UI font that does support smoothing, then your Win install is so borked I've yet not seen that in over 2 decades. Most of the modern fonts that require smoothing to look good will look very thin with smoothing disabled.
Smoothing is applied only to modern fonts and in a whole pixel manner.
ClearType is applied to all fonts everywhere in a sub pixel manner, making everything that was sharp text that doesn't need smoothing to turn into a blurry rubbish and all text has color fringing. It literally mangles old fonts such as Courier New, etc. making them unusable, bolder, color fringed and blurry, it doesn't understand unlike regular font smoothing that it should not smooth these older fonts that were not designed to be smoothed and were designed to be pixel sharp.

So you can indeed have all the fonts even in Win UI when using the modern fonts to look pixel sharp but these modern fonts tend to look poor without smoothing which they were designed to use as their designers are... "not interested in sharp easy to read text and will rather hurt your eyes with their fancy cool blurry fonts". Switching the fonts to good old pixel sharp fonts on modern Win is a pain as seen in above link as I could not find the good old UI for it anymore and it used to be a handy feature even in CRT days. Linux is a whole another can of worms and in general has forced modern smoothed fonts = blurry text galore, but can have better smoothing algorithms, possibly, sometimes or just better combination of font and smoothing depending on each distro's defaults.

All the variant of desktop icon fonts, none, smoothed, smoothed and ClearType enabled at the same time (I think CT overrides smoothing anyway but didn't bother to check as almost no one disables the smoothing or even knows that setting still exists if they did not use older Win), you have to open the attachment and view it at 100% zoom, added comment font is the same and has no smoothing applied in the graphical editor, all the icons and their text are arranged screenshots, bottom row is 200% zoomed nearest neighbor upscale:
03-12-2020 11:26 AM
Fanu disabling clear type makes text look HORRIBLE on my 850G - its like every word is bolded (font smoothing does nothing, literally no difference)

with clear type, fonts are thinner and more easily readable - this is especially noticeable with desktop icons text
03-11-2020 07:47 PM
JackCY
Quote: Originally Posted by smoke2 View Post
Im owning this monitor 850F. I have some questions:
1. Have been any firmware update for this monitor?
2. The overall sharpness and representation of text is disappointing. I have eye strain. I tried to set ClearType, but it doesnt help too much. Is there anything what could improve this issue?
3. The left and right edges of the monitor looks like little bit curved. Is it normal? Im sitting about 45-50cm from the monitor.
1) Not as far as I know.
2) Disable clear type but leave "smooth edges of screen fonts" enabled. This should render all fonts as they were meant to be, sharp fonts are sharp but smoothed fonts will be smoothed for where they are used in the Windows UI. ClearType messes with subpixels, adding blur and color fringing.

If you want A) then disable ClearType:



There is some sharpness adjustment or so I've been told and remember but it didn't seem to have a neutral sharpness setting, maybe you can adjust it to be sharpened instead of blurred, sadly some monitors are like that and offer no neutral setting.
3) Don't remember which flat monitor it was but yes some flat monitors are visibly bent You can take a long straight ruler, such as a metal ruler and check the panel carefully. It can be that the corners are bent a bit so the panel is turning a little to a surface of a sphere.
I'm usually more annoyed by missing pixels on sides of monitors that are too deep and their backlight doesn't extend far enough to sides = the edges of panel are not backlit especially if you sit closer than 1 m away. Eizotest.exe has a test pattern for this to check it quickly and easily.

50 cm is very close. Try to stay with eyes away from monitor around 75 cm.
I never use monitors with top edge at my eye level, my neck would fall off from looking down all the time. As far as I know and my experience is about 3/4 height to eye level works well though 2/3 may be better especially for gaming. Depends on your chair too though if you can easily look up a little or not.

I use relatively low brightness, especially for web/text with white backgrounds, even on a large monitor under 120 cd/m2, around 70 cd/m2. But for smaller, 27" let alone 24" (50 or less cd/m2) I was using even less as the eyes don't adjust as much since the screen is considerably smaller. Adjusting your room lighting also can make a big difference for this. If you blast it in a pitch black room, of course it will tyre your eyes, been there, done that with the VAs with wider gamut and it really is tiring.
03-11-2020 11:22 AM
Leopardi
Quote: Originally Posted by smoke2 View Post
Im owning this monitor 850F. I have some questions:
1. Have been any firmware update for this monitor?
2. The overall sharpness and representation of text is disappointing. I have eye strain. I tried to set ClearType, but it doesnt help too much. Is there anything what could improve this issue?
3. The left and right edges of the monitor looks like little bit curved. Is it normal? Im sitting about 45-50cm from the monitor.
Are you sure its properly setup ergonomy wise? 45cm away with a 31.5" monitor sounds like your eyes are looking upwards.

Top edge should be at eye level, looking upwards even slightly means that your eye is under strain.

And of course keep brightness according to environment, too little and too high brightness both will strain eyes.
03-11-2020 11:00 AM
smoke2 Im owning this monitor 850F. I have some questions:
1. Have been any firmware update for this monitor?
2. The overall sharpness and representation of text is disappointing. I have eye strain. I tried to set ClearType, but it doesnt help too much. Is there anything what could improve this issue?
3. The left and right edges of the monitor looks like little bit curved. Is it normal? Im sitting about 45-50cm from the monitor.
03-05-2020 11:01 PM
JackCY Depends on the panel and it's backlight as to what gamut/colors it can produce. Then it's on calibration (at the factory) as to how they map the input from PC = image data = source to the voltages that drive the panel itself inside monitor to produce colors, sometimes they do this well, sometimes they do not, usually it's in the middle but I've seen the whole spectrum by now. Unless it specifically has a large DCI P3 coverage or quantum dots then I would not worry about having a little over sRGB, mine has that and it doesn't pop like crazy as a QD Samsung VA does for example. While the 850G in comparison is desaturated a lot because of it's 32" VA barely sRGB vs 32" IPS with over sRGB. That was quite a noticeable change for the better.

As you say in the s3220dgf thread, it's probably a good thing that the SDR mode is a little over so it doesn't look dull as true sRGB is quite narrow and dull, and then in HDR mode have it blast colors at full. But you gotta switch to HDR mode for HDR movies, which is far from seamless, usable though if you have the player and renderer, normal people don't and won't even have an HDR source.

There are also recently launched cheaper 34" ultrawides, maybe still US only for all of them but then you could get one under $400 from microcenter right now. Which to me doesn't look like a bad deal if one is OK with that PPI level.
03-05-2020 01:40 AM
smoke2
Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
No idea, as per the notes in the 2019 summary thread:



The question mark means, don't know, no one reported to me or I cared to dug it out of web or rather ask someone (usually multiple ppl needed to be asked) to provide good photos to be able to tell.

---

If the automatic brightness is working well that is, you can adjust the min/max range and sensitivity. My experience with non EIZO that had this was rather, they set it and it is what it is, can't change anything or almost anything. Plus they often put it on front of monitor and not on back of it, so I have no lights behind me = monitor front is dark = brightness auto set to low but I have lights and window behind monitor = background behind monitor is bright and the auto adjustment doesn't detect this because it's on the wrong side. They should put it on top edge for example or have multiple sensors.

I use presets if I can to adjust brightness to preselected levels and use cases. Text (often on white because webpages/OCN/Excel/...), games/SDR movies, HDR movies/bright day games, almost max.
Lack of sRGB mode means the monitor will have very oversaturated colors without any chance to reassign it?
03-04-2020 11:43 PM
JackCY No idea, as per the notes in the 2019 summary thread:

Quote:
Dell S3220DGF - looks like Samsung HG70 panel to me - ?
The question mark means, don't know, no one reported to me or I cared to dug it out of web or rather ask someone (usually multiple ppl needed to be asked) to provide good photos to be able to tell.

---

If the automatic brightness is working well that is, you can adjust the min/max range and sensitivity. My experience with non EIZO that had this was rather, they set it and it is what it is, can't change anything or almost anything. Plus they often put it on front of monitor and not on back of it, so I have no lights behind me = monitor front is dark = brightness auto set to low but I have lights and window behind monitor = background behind monitor is bright and the auto adjustment doesn't detect this because it's on the wrong side. They should put it on top edge for example or have multiple sensors.

I use presets if I can to adjust brightness to preselected levels and use cases. Text (often on white because webpages/OCN/Excel/...), games/SDR movies, HDR movies/bright day games, almost max.
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