Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community - Reply to Topic

Thread: [Scratch] "Project Cascade" 3M™ Novec™ 7000 Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-10-2019 03:54 PM
Slaughtahouse Any update?
02-16-2019 07:18 AM
DoCDoC
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaughtahouse View Post
By the way, I love your CAD render! Good luck with the build; subscribed.
Thanks, I used Autodesk Fusion 360. It's pretty much my staple CAD program, as you can quickly import McMaster-Carr parts with a built-in app and easily create designs that are at the fringe of design and manufacturability. I find that the more time you spend on the design of a project the less headaches and materials overall.

Thanks for the subscription!, just know this is a bit of a longer term build as the processor is not even out yet. However, since I plan on taking this to QuakeCon in July that will be the projects final due date. If I need to throw in a temporary AM4 processor to make that happen I will.

DoCDoC
02-15-2019 08:02 AM
Slaughtahouse Very interesting to hear about this additional product as well as your current operations. It appears this build is in the right hands.

I can't comment with certainty why immersion hasn't taken off yet, but I know from a lot of the projects I am involved with, including work with large Telecom companies, they are not investing in Liquid cooled (immersion) cooling for existing server rooms.

All associated fees & potential risk appear to outweigh the opportunity to utilize conventional methods (Access flooring w. airflow panels, containment isles etc.) Granted, mose executives which lead the project and define the budget are more concerned with initial upfront costs rather than long term investment, which I would imagine payoff with immersion.

In large, new builds, with leading companies (Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook etc.) I would not be surprised if this becomes the mainstream within the next 5 to 10 years. Anyways, I won't derail your thread any further. Curious to see where this goes.

By the way, I love your CAD render! Good luck with the build; subscribed.
02-15-2019 07:13 AM
DoCDoC I have reached out to 3M, though more to figure out their distribution partners and to see if I can get some 3M™ Microporous Metallic Boiling Enhancement Coating (BEC). It is more of a development material that you can coat copper heat sinks with. The material has optimally-sized nucleation sites and better thermal conductivity to Novec. I own a small robotics startup and if I can find ways to reduce power by cooling motor controllers and very powerful multi core procs/GPU's for AI research that is of value to me. I think Novec is already popular in some data centers but has not really kicked off. I hope that more places see the benefits and move to it, so the price Novec can drop with economies of scale. Even the benefits can be realized on a small scale like this single proc build.

  1. Increase density of computer electronics
  2. Less power required to cool components
  3. Less fans compared to a typical system
  4. Reduced noise
  5. No dust in the sealed system
  6. No heat sinks needed, or at least much smaller ones
  7. No extra piping or water blocks
  8. Higher sustained clocks

DoCDoC
02-14-2019 10:16 AM
Slaughtahouse Given the cost of Novec, have you considering consulting with 3M about your project?

For example, I typically specify 3M products for projects. Whenever I run into an issue where I don't know much about the product (as I am not a product specialist), I contact a Product Rep and they're usually very helpful. Especially when providing an engineering assessment, details, or CAD etc.

Now, I never worked on a project with immersion cooling but I believe 3M has a vested interest in seeing this pushed to more new builds (Data Centers.) Any positive exposure a company receives... is good! As you know, there are a lot of sponsored builds on OCN. I would not find it too surprising if 3M wanted to assist in some way.

Just food for thought.
02-13-2019 08:01 AM
dirty elf ohhhh. makes much more sense now. thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
02-12-2019 07:48 PM
DoCDoC
Quote: Originally Posted by dirty elf View Post
is the 80mm rad the condenser or the dual 120mm rad? could you draw a diagram? i’m intrigued


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The triple 80mm radiator is the condenser in this design. I did a hand drawing of the loop, hope that helps.



DoCDoC
02-12-2019 07:30 PM
J7SC
Quote: Originally Posted by DoCDoC View Post
Thanks for the interest in the project!

From my understanding fittings and hard lines that we use today would be ok, as far as compatibility with the chemical, it would not react or degrade them. However the big issue is they would not be able to handle the internal pressure that the Novec solution/gas would put on them. As soon as the gas would build it could raise to ~20-35 PSI. This would literally bust most fittings today. In the design I'm looking to keep it under 15-30 PSI. Submersion is really the best way to utilize the solution. Making sure the condenser can keep up will be the challenge. I would like to add a industrial psi gauge to the top of the tank to monitor it, so the computer can shutdown if the secondary cooling system fails.

DoCDoC

Thanks for the info. Controlling the 'state' of Novec before the pressure builds via gas must be a real challenge...still, I plan to follow your progress w/ great interest. This still seems to a bit more realistic than D-Wave's ('quantum computing') 'closed loop LN2 setup (size of a room), or Kingpin's 'Roboclocker' here
02-12-2019 07:17 PM
DoCDoC
Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post
I find this to be a really interesting project. I watched Der8auer on YouTube dump dual Epyc server boards into Novec, and even a laptop, but always in an open basin of sorts. I have never seen a dedicated PC system with it.

In fact, I was wondering if I can use Novec in my regular water-cooling setup as the cooling media. Related to that is a quick question: Where do I find out of Novec is compatible with rubber O-rings (i.e. compression fittings), other types of plastic (i.e. LRT tubes or acrylic) and even copper / brass...a loop with Novec on a chiller might be an idea worth pursuing...AFAIK, Novec 7k series has a pour point of up to -100 c (not that a chiller would go that low, but still...).

...looking forward to see your project progress
Thanks for the interest in the project!

From my understanding fittings and hard lines that we use today would be ok, as far as compatibility with the chemical, it would not react or degrade them. However the big issue is they would not be able to handle the internal pressure that the Novec solution/gas would put on them. As soon as the gas would build it could raise to ~20-35 PSI. This would literally bust most fittings today. In the design I'm looking to keep it under 15-30 PSI. Submersion is really the best way to utilize the solution. Making sure the condenser can keep up will be the challenge. I would like to add a industrial psi gauge to the top of the tank to monitor it, so the computer can shutdown if the secondary cooling system fails.

DoCDoC
02-12-2019 05:20 PM
J7SC I find this to be a really interesting project. I watched Der8auer on YouTube dump dual Epyc server boards into Novec, and even a laptop, but always in an open basin of sorts. I have never seen a dedicated PC system with it.

In fact, I was wondering if I can use Novec in my regular water-cooling setup as the cooling media. Related to that is a quick question: Where do I find out of Novec is compatible with rubber O-rings (i.e. compression fittings), other types of plastic (i.e. LRT tubes or acrylic) and even copper / brass...a loop with Novec on a chiller might be an idea worth pursuing...AFAIK, Novec 7k series has a pour point of up to -100 c (not that a chiller would go that low, but still...).

...looking forward to see your project progress
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off