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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10-15-2019 01:44 AM
The_Gamer294
Quote: Originally Posted by ForTheRepublic View Post
Hmm, yeah maybe the LLC for SOC could use adjusting. The calculator suggests level 2 or level 3, but like I said, I'm not really sure how that corresponds to Gigabyte's naming scheme, so I just set it to "Medium" which was my best estimation of what that might be. I think you're right that 53 Ω ProcODT seems like the best bet, and that was my hypothesis too, so I'll stick with that for now. I also increased my VDDP voltage up to 1.1 V (it was 0.8 V before I believe) and lowered my DRAM voltage to 1.4 V. If I still can't get anywhere with that, then I guess I'll have to start messing around with using one kit (2 DIMMs) instead of 2. The SOC voltage I'm using, 1.1 V is already the suggested voltage from the calculator for 3400 MHz, but there's still headroom to increase it if I need to.
On second thought my C6H has 5 levels of LLC besides auto, I think you're right and that'd put you at about medium or so. I'd imagine too high or too low could cause issues. For some reason I thought I had only 3 settings...
10-15-2019 01:27 AM
ForTheRepublic
Quote: Originally Posted by The_Gamer294 View Post
So I did a quick google and I see a lot of complaints about vdroop with your board. Your ram itself should be more than capable of 3200 CL14 but you could try poking one kit at a time to see if you have a weakness there. I'd just set my timings and raise MHz til it crashes and increase only dram voltage, or even just set it straight to 1.4 and see if it'll boot each kit at 3200 and then 3400.

I think the problem is your board's power supply to the already finicky memory controller and you need to bump a voltage and/or LLC. 53ohm is probably your best bet since it booted a higher MHz. I got 400MHz just from throwing in power settings from the calculator, but I had all those settings in my bios and you don't so you have a little more leg work. Basically your voltage is drooping below a stable point and you have to find which one that is. Increasing the voltage should increase the low point of that droop and LLC tries to compensate for the amount of swing but I read can sometimes overshoot and spike past a safe maximum. I'm not an engineer nor do I have the tools to measure this type of thing so I can't say how far it can actually swing or how extreme the extreme LLC setting will be so you'll just have to try it unless someone else can comment. I just went for it but I'm also prepared to replace parts if I fry anything. It'll give me an excuse to get a better mem controller lol. You should have plenty of headroom voltage-wise though to hit 3200MHz. Maybe try voltages for 3400MHz with a more modest LLC?
Hmm, yeah maybe the LLC for SOC could use adjusting. The calculator suggests level 2 or level 3, but like I said, I'm not really sure how that corresponds to Gigabyte's naming scheme, so I just set it to "Medium" which was my best estimation of what that might be. I think you're right that 53 Ω ProcODT seems like the best bet, and that was my hypothesis too, so I'll stick with that for now. I also increased my VDDP voltage up to 1.1 V (it was 0.8 V before I believe) and lowered my DRAM voltage to 1.4 V. If I still can't get anywhere with that, then I guess I'll have to start messing around with using one kit (2 DIMMs) instead of 2. The SOC voltage I'm using, 1.1 V is already the suggested voltage from the calculator for 3400 MHz, but there's still headroom to increase it if I need to.
10-15-2019 12:50 AM
The_Gamer294
Quote: Originally Posted by ForTheRepublic View Post
Wow congrats. One thing I have not tried tweaking is the CLDO VDDP voltage. The DRAM Calculator recommendation was 700 mV, which is what my board is set to by default to anyway, but I did notice in the advanced tab of the calculator, under Debug Voltages, 900 mV is recommended, so maybe it'd be worthwhile to try that. I have my DRAM voltage at 1.42 V, but I'll turn it down if I can once I find a stable upper limit on the memory frequency; and I did bump my SOC up to 1.1 V from 1.075.

As for the other power settings you said helped you a lot, the only settings my Gigabyte X370 seems to have are the load-line-calibration for VCORE and VSOC; and for those I'm already using Turbo and Medium, respectively. (I'm not sure what numbers those would correspond to on the level # scale; Gigabyte's naming scheme is weird; it goes : Auto, Standard, Low, Normal, Medium, High, Turbo, and then Extreme; so would "Low" be level 0 and "Extreme" be level 5?).

There are no options, at least that I could find, for Current Capability, VRM Switching Frequency, Voltage Frequency, Power Duty Control, Power Phase Control, or Manual Adjustment. I think it may have Power Thermal Control options, but it's called something else, and I don't think I need to touch that anyway.

Where I'm at right now with my tuning is that I've found ProcODT of 60 Ω, 69 Ω, and 53 Ω are all stable at 2800 MHz CL14 ("safe"-preset timings from the calculator for 3200 MHz), but only 53 Ω is stable (with Memtest86 and TM5-1usmus config so far at least [Edit #1: stable with no errors after 8 hours of MEMbench, 30200 GB / 16 threads.]) if I bump the memory clock frequency up one more level to 2866 MHz (60 and 69 Ω give a ton of errors immediately with memtest86). I was able to cold boot at 2866 MHz with ProcODT 53 Ω, but I don't want to call that "stable" just yet, considering my last experience with thinking I found something that would boot reliably, but turned out not to. [Edit#2: annnd turns out it is in fact another repeat of last time; cold booted PC today and, no boot failure during POST, but Windows went straight into BSOD ("memory management" error code), despite not changing any settings from yesterday, which gave no errors after 3 passes in Memtest86 (6 hours), 45 min run of TM5, and 8 hours of MEMbench; so now I'm back to 2800 MHz.]
So I did a quick google and I see a lot of complaints about vdroop with your board. Your ram itself should be more than capable of 3200 CL14 but you could try poking one kit at a time to see if you have a weakness there. I'd just set my timings and raise MHz til it crashes and increase only dram voltage, or even just set it straight to 1.4 and see if it'll boot each kit at 3200 and then 3400.

I think the problem is your board's power supply to the already finicky memory controller and you need to bump a voltage and/or LLC. 53ohm is probably your best bet since it booted a higher MHz. I got 400MHz just from throwing in power settings from the calculator, but I had all those settings in my bios and you don't so you have a little more leg work. Basically your voltage is drooping below a stable point and you have to find which one that is. Increasing the voltage should increase the low point of that droop and LLC tries to compensate for the amount of swing but I read can sometimes overshoot and spike past a safe maximum. I'm not an engineer nor do I have the tools to measure this type of thing so I can't say how far it can actually swing or how extreme the extreme LLC setting will be so you'll just have to try it unless someone else can comment. I just went for it but I'm also prepared to replace parts if I fry anything. It'll give me an excuse to get a better mem controller lol. You should have plenty of headroom voltage-wise though to hit 3200MHz. Maybe try voltages for 3400MHz with a more modest LLC?
10-14-2019 06:28 AM
ForTheRepublic
Quote: Originally Posted by The_Gamer294 View Post
I reached my goal and then some. ProcODT did need to go to 53.3. 1.4V DRAM 1.1V SOC and 1.0V-1.1V VDDP.

What really got me moving is the VDDP bump and the power supply settings from the calculator. I copied them straight from the left side and they just worked. My motherboard minimum for the frequency was 300 I think but the rest are all at the minimums, like LLC 2, CC 110%. That made a HUGE difference. Hopefully you have those settings, I saw that you may not have a startup setting which may hurt you as well, mine is set at 1.4V, but you shouldn't need to be near that high at all unless you try to go 3400MHz+ CL14/15, I think you should play with the power settings.
Wow congrats. One thing I have not tried tweaking is the CLDO VDDP voltage. The DRAM Calculator recommendation was 700 mV, which is what my board is set to by default to anyway, but I did notice in the advanced tab of the calculator, under Debug Voltages, 900 mV is recommended, so maybe it'd be worthwhile to try that. I have my DRAM voltage at 1.42 V, but I'll turn it down if I can once I find a stable upper limit on the memory frequency; and I did bump my SOC up to 1.1 V from 1.075.

As for the other power settings you said helped you a lot, the only settings my Gigabyte X370 seems to have are the load-line-calibration for VCORE and VSOC; and for those I'm already using Turbo and Medium, respectively. (I'm not sure what numbers those would correspond to on the level # scale; Gigabyte's naming scheme is weird; it goes : Auto, Standard, Low, Normal, Medium, High, Turbo, and then Extreme; so would "Low" be level 0 and "Extreme" be level 5?).

There are no options, at least that I could find, for Current Capability, VRM Switching Frequency, Voltage Frequency, Power Duty Control, Power Phase Control, or Manual Adjustment. I think it may have Power Thermal Control options, but it's called something else, and I don't think I need to touch that anyway.

Where I'm at right now with my tuning is that I've found ProcODT of 60 Ω, 69 Ω, and 53 Ω are all stable at 2800 MHz CL14 ("safe"-preset timings from the calculator for 3200 MHz), but only 53 Ω is stable (with Memtest86 and TM5-1usmus config so far at least [Edit #1: stable with no errors after 8 hours of MEMbench, 30200 GB / 16 threads.]) if I bump the memory clock frequency up one more level to 2866 MHz (60 and 69 Ω give a ton of errors immediately with memtest86). I was able to cold boot at 2866 MHz with ProcODT 53 Ω, but I don't want to call that "stable" just yet, considering my last experience with thinking I found something that would boot reliably, but turned out not to. [Edit#2: annnd turns out it is in fact another repeat of last time; cold booted PC today and, no boot failure during POST, but Windows went straight into BSOD ("memory management" error code), despite not changing any settings from yesterday, which gave no errors after 3 passes in Memtest86 (6 hours), 45 min run of TM5, and 8 hours of MEMbench; so now I'm back to 2800 MHz.]
10-14-2019 12:08 AM
Cidious Guys I need Advice! Some serious considering.

I notice my system is running out of RAM while gaming. This is after a day of gaming (Anno 1800 is a ***** with hogging memory btw, BFV and SW:BFII crashed sometimes probably due to a memory leak)

https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...300662&thumb=1


So I want to get a bit more ram into the system to future proof for upcoming games etc. But here's the thing. This is my setup:

MSI B450M Mortar
AMD Ryzen R5 3600
Trident Z 3200CL14 B-die @ 3800 CL16


Now I have 2 options within my Budget.

1. Add 2x 8GB B-die to match my current 16GB kit
2. Replace with 2x16GB Trident Z Neo CJR 3600-16-19-19-19


Both are about the same price but here's the thing. My Motherboard has Daisy Chain topology that is notoriously bad for 4 sticks memory OC. I'm not sure if I could get 3800 or even 3733 stable with good timings worthy of B-die and completely miss my goal with the expensive B-Die anyway.
CJR is slower and Doesn't have much headroom for OC and equally I'm not sure if it can go 3800 stable with reasonable timings without loosing too much performance on the 16GB kit. I intend to keep the kit a long time for an upgrade with the next Zen 3 upgrade. Final AM4 processor. At that time I'll probably upgrade motherboard too but not yet.


Any advice guys?
10-13-2019 11:48 PM
Bartholdi I'd love to hear from anyone who used the tool succesfully on Samsung B-die 3200MHz CL 16-18-18-36 on the newest agesa Bios x570 MB and Ryzen 3000.
10-13-2019 11:06 PM
The_Gamer294
Quote: Originally Posted by ForTheRepublic View Post
Ah. Well I do have Memtest on USB already; I guess it would have been a good idea to use it, but I got excited/impatient about the progress. Oops . I definitely plan to run those commands once I find something stable. 69 Ω ProcODT seems promising. I'll keep testing and update later. Thanks .



Hmm, yeah I was definitely quite surprised that DRAM calculator's recommendation for SOC voltage was so low, when most of the reading I've done has indicated to set it around 1.1 V. After I've gone as high in memory clock as I can with my current testing, I'll definitely bump it up some more to see if it makes a difference. I think you could be right about the memory controller being the culprit. It's said that the B-Die DIMM is the most well-suited for first gen Ryzen, but here we are struggling with it. AT this point, if I can get to at least 2933 MHz CL14 without errors and boot failures, I think I'll be happy; I'd be ecstatic if I could get 3200 MHz, but my hopes for that have dwindled. Ah oh well. Do let us know if you reach your goal @3200MHz .
I reached my goal and then some. ProcODT did need to go to 53.3. 1.4V DRAM 1.1V SOC and 1.0V-1.1V VDDP.

What really got me moving is the VDDP bump and the power supply settings from the calculator. I copied them straight from the left side and they just worked. My motherboard minimum for the frequency was 300 I think but the rest are all at the minimums, like LLC 2, CC 110%. That made a HUGE difference. Hopefully you have those settings, I saw that you may not have a startup setting which may hurt you as well, mine is set at 1.4V, but you shouldn't need to be near that high at all unless you try to go 3400MHz+ CL14/15, I think you should play with the power settings.

Now I think I'm reaching a limit here, the calculator suggested fast settings are slightly unstable with no other changes. I think I can at least get a few more MHz but I'm kind of sick of crashing for the time being, maybe this weekend haha

Quote: Originally Posted by SaccoSVD View Post
Here is my 64GB 4Dimm TridentZ Neo 3600 CL16-19-19-19 running at 3733 CL16-19-19-19

The DRAM calc safe preset helped quite a lot, I could improve the timings a bit further from there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...x_cjr_at_3733/
Ahh if I had just waited for gen 2 at least
10-13-2019 03:40 PM
SaccoSVD Here is my 64GB 4Dimm TridentZ Neo 3600 CL16-19-19-19 running at 3733 CL16-19-19-19

The DRAM calc safe preset helped quite a lot, I could improve the timings a bit further from there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...x_cjr_at_3733/
10-13-2019 06:06 AM
ForTheRepublic
Quote: Originally Posted by Sphex_ View Post
Please, for the love of God, take a flash drive and install MemTest86 on it. Boot to that and run it for a full pass or two before booting into Windows. Anything more than ZERO errors is bad. This will save your Windows install from getting ****ed by unstable memory. Then boot to windows and run something like TM5. After you find something stable I suggest you run the following commands from command prompt with elevated privileges so you can ensure your Windows install isn't messed up:
Code:
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth
Code:
sfc /scannow
Run these one after another without reboots in between. They work hand-in-hand, usually.

And I'm confident we're onto something here with the ProcODT values.
Ah. Well I do have Memtest on USB already; I guess it would have been a good idea to use it, but I got excited/impatient about the progress. Oops . I definitely plan to run those commands once I find something stable. 69 Ω ProcODT seems promising. I'll keep testing and update later. Thanks .

Quote: Originally Posted by The_Gamer294 View Post
Hey I'm in pretty much the same boat as you. I have 4x F4-3600C15-8GTZ running on a C6H X370 with an 1800X trying to hit 3200MHz CL14. I've been fighting with it all day going through all the same things I just saw you post about haha.

Here's a screenshot of where I'm at now. I'm sitting at 3000MHz thinking about what to try next. A lot of these are set to "Auto" so some of them might be kinda weird but it is stable and I can stop pulling my hair out tonight. DRAM voltage is probably 1.35V or 1.4V if I didn't leave it on auto, I think our battle is with the memory controller and the ram itself really isn't working too hard. My SOC voltage is set to auto and it reads 1.1375, I'm not sure if it actually needs that much but maybe you could try bumping that. I think the calculator assumes 2 DIMMs?
Hmm, yeah I was definitely quite surprised that DRAM calculator's recommendation for SOC voltage was so low, when most of the reading I've done has indicated to set it around 1.1 V. After I've gone as high in memory clock as I can with my current testing, I'll definitely bump it up some more to see if it makes a difference. I think you could be right about the memory controller being the culprit. It's said that the B-Die DIMM is the most well-suited for first gen Ryzen, but here we are struggling with it. AT this point, if I can get to at least 2933 MHz CL14 without errors and boot failures, I think I'll be happy; I'd be ecstatic if I could get 3200 MHz, but my hopes for that have dwindled. Ah oh well. Do let us know if you reach your goal @3200MHz .
10-13-2019 03:09 AM
TelaKeppi Here's a Taiphoon screenshot from Hynix DJR kit.
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