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Thread: zaunkoenig m1k: 23g mouse (pure fingertip grip) Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-26-2019 07:23 AM
IPS.Blue
Quote: Originally Posted by NDUS View Post
Does 3360 still have smoothing with your firmware?
Had overlooked this. Smoothing can occur in the sensor itself or in the MCU of the mouse PCB. The 3360 has smoothing and it cannot be disabled. However we dont use MCU smoothing.
With the 3389 you can disable smoothing via the sensor register «Ripple Control» (however the 3360 might have higher framerates than the 3389). Funnily enough there seem to be mice with the 3389 which then have smoothing in the MCU.
Next month there is going to be another sensor release by PixArt.
08-19-2019 07:21 PM
deepor
Quote: Originally Posted by tacomn View Post
Why would you be bhopping at lan? Well have you heard of quake?
In the Quake games the rules are different. You can start holding down your jump keybind while you are in the air, and then you will automatically jump the moment you touch the ground. This makes it so you can use the space bar for bunny hopping. You don't need a macro or the wheel in Quake because there's nothing special to time about hitting the ground while you are bunny hopping.

This behavior for the jump keybind in the Quake games was introduced with "QuakeWorld", which is the Internet version of the first Quake.

The problem is that when the QuakeWorld update for Quake 1 came out, Valve had already started working on Half-Life. They had already started customizing their version of the Quake code and then never got the updated rules for jumping from Quake. You now have that weird problem about it being impossible to time keypress for bunny hopping without a macro/wheel.
08-19-2019 02:35 PM
tacomn Why would you be bhopping at lan? Well have you heard of quake?
08-18-2019 07:41 PM
NDUS
Quote: Originally Posted by untouchable247 View Post
No you can't. Macros are banned in esea and faceit leagues, you'll get busted on lan and overwatch banned even if you only play official matchmaking. Why don't you just keep quiet if you don't know what you're talking about.

There's zero skill in using marcos, that's why there's no place for macros in cs and there never will be.
I have used +jump macros on platforms from CAL to ESEA. Whether or not you personally consider it cheating is up to you (I don't, because it's literally identical to what mwheel +jump does) but it is objectively true that you can use a bhop macro in any game without issue. There is simply no way to discern whether a user is +jump spamming with mwheel or with a keypress.

>you'll get busted on lan
A LAN might disallow keyboard macros for bhopping, but why would you be bhopping at a LAN? Are you going to LAN to play movement maps?

Also, for that matter, most LANs would not allow a custom mouse like this anyway. Most big LANs don't even let you use your own mouse (to avoid driver hacks etc.,) you instead ask for them to provide one
08-18-2019 07:57 AM
JackCY The good thing about oldest mice was their simple shell design shape, making them easier to hold by anyone unlike modern sharp edged wanna be ergonomic abominations.

I don't remember Logitech having good sensor even if they may have had some good shapes until they moved past the initial poor gaming sensors. And they dabbled trying to push lasers for a while too.
All the older were common rubbish performance, even if it had good shape, office mice.

Nowdays mice like Logitech mini optical, Zowie Mico, ... are replaced by Gpro/102/203/305/... shape and an endless amount of office/laptop mice (but no one looks at those because they want a "gaming" sensor).

These old mice long discontinued are only sold from scalpers as collector items.

Yes having sensor up front makes the mouse more sensitive to use. And sadly you can't mod many mice in that regard.
Most mice are designed to sell to masses not to enthusiasts let alone "pros".

For old games 2-4 buttons is fine but for latest ability ridden games having 5 buttons is nice.

Side buttons on pinky side are pointless for the most part though on some mice a single button is usable by ring finger, although most mice disable one side anyway or the sides are wired shared meaning you don't get 2 extra buttons to use anyway.
08-18-2019 04:22 AM
IPS.Blue
Quote: Originally Posted by alexiawilson View Post
Found this mouse from a friend when we were talking about lightweight mice. Gotta say I'm incredibly excited for this mouse. I play games at a decently high level and I like to spend a few hours everyday aim training. I have always wanted to utilize a fingertip grip but I've never been able to find a mouse that felt like it truly complimented the grip. Posts like these are mostly what I'd find when trying to look for a mouse that felt designed for fingertip grip.
Nice link, thanks. The Logitech Mini Optical (LMO) was really good back then. It was heavily used by South Korean StarCraft players as well. And then the LMO got discontinued …
08-16-2019 11:39 PM
untouchable247
Quote: Originally Posted by NDUS View Post
You can bhop with keyboard macro easily. Every modern peripheral software has a feature that lets you map a "bhop key". The people arguing for a scroll wheel because "you need it to bhop" are wrong - they're really arguing for a scroll wheel because that's what they're used to and they don't like change.
No you can't. Macros are banned in esea and faceit leagues, you'll get busted on lan and overwatch banned even if you only play official matchmaking. Why don't you just keep quiet if you don't know what you're talking about.

There's zero skill in using marcos, that's why there's no place for macros in cs and there never will be.
08-16-2019 01:27 PM
NDUS You can bhop with keyboard macro easily. Every modern peripheral software has a feature that lets you map a "bhop key". The people arguing for a scroll wheel because "you need it to bhop" are wrong - they're really arguing for a scroll wheel because that's what they're used to and they don't like change.

I can see an argument for mouse3/mouse4/mouse5/ because often games these days have some abilities you need to use in a split-second timing, and mice tend to have favorable input delay and switch travel compared to keyboards. But this is a problem with keyboards really, not a problem with the M1K. A mouse shouldn't be designed around compensating for the deficiencies of bad keyboards, it should be designed around being a good mouse.
08-16-2019 09:44 AM
alexiawilson Found this mouse from a friend when we were talking about lightweight mice. Gotta say I'm incredibly excited for this mouse. I play games at a decently high level and I like to spend a few hours everyday aim training. I have always wanted to utilize a fingertip grip but I've never been able to find a mouse that felt like it truly complimented the grip. Posts like these are mostly what I'd find when trying to look for a mouse that felt designed for fingertip grip.

I'm really happy with the focus on the smallest weight possible. I hate using the mouse wheel, it's annoying and in more games than is reasonable abilities can't be unbound from it (SIEGE ????). The lack of side buttons (or mwheel button) will be slightly missed, but I'm very happy that this product is laser focused on the grip and weight. I can easily cope with finding new keyboard binds, but I can't take that weight off the mouse! Very excited to use it!!
08-15-2019 02:51 AM
IPS.Blue
Quote: Originally Posted by rain85 View Post
i think this discussion can be summarised as follows:

1) mouse maker's view and players in category A view on essential features: right and left click
2) players in category B view: right and left click plus wheel
3) players in category C view: right and left click plus side buttons
4) players in category D view: right and left click plus side buttons plus wheel
You forgot the category of people who dont want side buttons or a wheel, but would like to have a third mouse button located where the wheel would normally be. Plus, with side buttons, some like them on the right and not the left side. And there are people who want a wheel plus another button above the wheel. And there will be people who want side buttons on both sides. Finally there are people who want much more than just two side buttons.

We didnt design the M1K by looking at different market segments. Which is the common procedure for a mouse company. A traditional mouse company tries to do market research to find out what market segments are large enough, so that it makes sense for them economically to invest in the creation of a new mouse. This is why most mice have a wheel and side buttons and kind of have a similar shape. This is what market research gets you.
We chose a different approach. We designed the M1K by completely ignoring the market and instead thinking about the minimum number of required buttons for the games we played. We tried to keep the number of mouse buttons as low as possible because every button, the left and right mouse button as well, does a) add weight and b) can limit your grip. I hope anyone reading this agrees that low weight is objectively better and that a weak grip is bad. We are fully aware that this highly limits our customer base. And we dont do it to insult you or other mouse wheel afficionados. We do it because we think its optimal. And I dont want to call anyone who likes to use a mouse wheel in game stupid. I would however like to suggest to them to critically think about their mouse wheel usage: is the wheel really critically important? Or is he maybe just used to it? Many people do things not because they are optimal, but because they are used to them. Old habits die hard.


Quote: Originally Posted by rain85 View Post
What is NOT an option for mouse maker:

1) We know better then you what YOU want. you say you want MWHEEL in your game? No you don't because WE don't think so and we know better than you about what you require.
Often times in mouse discussions words like «personal preference» or «experience» are used as thought-terminating clichés. There recently were a bunch of news articles about us on German IT news sites. The user comments on computerbase.de and pcgameshardware.de in particular were very negative not only towards the M1K, but also towards low weight. Lots of people posted they like heavy mice. One guy boasted he uses a 150 g mouse which helps him aim. Another guy posted he has been playing for multiple decades and he has tested low weight mice but his aim is best with a heavy mouse for sure (he even said his aim was five times better with a heavy mouse). Another guy made fun of lightweight mice and todays pro-gamers with their spaghetthi thin arms and cited Shroud as an example. Others posted that a lightweight mouse would just be personal preference but didnt have any objective advantages over heavy weight mice.
So what would you as a company do with these posts? Accept them as distilled and decades old wisdom? Or maybe tell them they are wrong?


Quote: Originally Posted by rain85 View Post
As a cs veteran who has played the game for over 10 years and someone who's in game skill is rated amongst top 5-10 percentile of total player base (according to the game's own ranking system), I would like to think I know a thing or two about if cs needs a mwheel or not. And it most definitely does, for a large majority of cs players.
My brothers CS:GO rank is Global Elite by the way, which is top 0.75 percent last time I checked (please dont ask me for my rank ). And he only plays with M1K prototypes. He has accepted that he cannot bunny hop and focusses on aim instead.
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