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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-21-2019 06:56 PM
Elrick
Quote: Originally Posted by a_ak57 View Post
To me the only legitimate gripe someone can have with this project (other than not agreeing with the original vision) is the timeline. I never expected it to release on time since best-case dates are always given for kickstarters, but I figured we would have at least gotten it in the spring.
Fully expected this to go on for months or even years simply because everyone's expectations would surface hence BST has tried to incorporate them, as well as he can considering the reality of actual manufacturing the mouse from scratch. Until anyone here on this forum deals with Chinese Companies, when it comes to building ANYTHING at all the first hurdle will always be language and custom's.

Their world is very different to ours here in the Western Sphere. Hence we expect constant hand holding and encouragement but in Chinese Society, there is none of that. They already know what comes with expecting something to be done and what will be received hence why many here complain about what they bought.

You will get something in the end but it will come down to many decisions made along the way to make it happen. Quality, design and execution of this mouse will always bare the full artifact of that reality.

Not saying it will be a failure in any way but do expect something that comes half way there when it finally arrives on our front door. Not worried at all since eventually Max Gaming will be the ones that circulates this latest BST design. Have always liked his work so I don't see this being a failure in any way. If Dream Machine's had done this, RUN away and hide your wallet's not worth buying anything if DM has organized this or any other mouse design.

Just be glad BST is staying away from them, hence it will be highly successful.
09-21-2019 05:24 PM
a_ak57 For one, Zowie was never one of the companies people were expecting this to emulate - the beta shape for instance was always supposed to be a clone of the WMO with some overhang. The alpha shape is supposed to be like Logitech's G100 and others. And whether those are worse than Zowie shapes is 100% preference.

It was also never advertised as a super lightweight mouse - it was expected to be something like 78g (even on the Indiegogo page it just say it'll be under 80g). When this project launched, the only prominent swiss cheese mouse was Finalmouse's Ultralight v1 (not even the Air58), so it's revisionist history to act like the market had accustomed to mice being so light. As long as it was under 80g people would be happy (at the time the GPW was still considered lightweight at 80g). Heck even during the talk of panels, the idea of adding ultralight ones didn't come up until recently after the market started getting flooded.

Not to mention, after the recent talk where BST mentioned it's now sitting at around 88g he also then said that he's working on getting it back to the original weight. This and the fact that you claim an adjustable sensor was something you were never aware of when backing the project make it seem like you skip random paragraphs when reading or something.

To me the only legitimate gripe someone can have with this project (other than not agreeing with the original vision) is the timeline. I never expected it to release on time since best-case dates are always given for kickstarters, but I figured we would have at least gotten it in the spring.
09-21-2019 04:11 PM
RaleighStClair
Quote: Originally Posted by chort View Post
claiming I am wrong on every single point while not having a clue on what you are commenting on.
that's a solid argument attempt.
considering NONE of the shapes offered were like the fk or ec, and the weight offered was barely lower than the ones zowie offers (78 grams vs 90 on the ergo beta vs ec2-a respectively and 77 vs 84 on the ambi beta vs fk2 respectively).
what was unique was the modularity and the adjustable sensor position.
you are probably not very attentive as a person because you missed the point of everything I wrote and project as a whole.
and no I didn't care about the sensor positioning, I just like the WMO shape and wanted to support the project.
> claiming I am wrong on every single point while not having a clue on what you are commenting on.

How on earth did you arrive at that notion reading my reply? Is Engrish not your first language?
09-21-2019 09:06 AM
chort
Quote: Originally Posted by RaleighStClair View Post
> you are wrong on many points here

No, we just have a difference of opinion. Everyone I know that backed this project - at the time - wanted a lighter, better, FK2/EC2. Now I am not sure what features you found most appealing about the project (i assume the adjustable sensor) but that doesn't make me "wrong". We have different goals/emphasis on what makes this project important. For example, I wanted a lightweight FK2 with: better scrollwheel, clicks, mousefeet, a mouse that included a "paracord" like cable out-of-the-box. This is also what most people - that I know - wanted; whether it be an Fk2 or EC2 shape. No one I know that backed this project even mentioned an adjustable sensor.

We just have different priorities.
claiming I am wrong on every single point while not having a clue on what you are commenting on.
that's a solid argument attempt.
considering NONE of the shapes offered were like the fk or ec, and the weight offered was barely lower than the ones zowie offers (78 grams vs 90 on the ergo beta vs ec2-a respectively and 77 vs 84 on the ambi beta vs fk2 respectively).
what was unique was the modularity and the adjustable sensor position.
you are probably not very attentive as a person because you missed the point of everything I wrote and project as a whole.
and no I didn't care about the sensor positioning, I just like the WMO shape and wanted to support the project.
09-21-2019 08:14 AM
iBerggman Exactly, the reason I backed the project is because of the modularity and modularity alone, the weight being under 80g is a nice additional bonus but honestly I probably would've backed it even if it was up to 100g since that's what I'm used to anyway. I've been experimenting with creating shapes that perfectly fit my hand and the Astrum would be a game changer for that since I don't have to "ruin" a shell by sticking something like sugru on it. With the modularity I could just 3d print the new shape and go back to original in a minute if I don't end up liking it. Additionally, if you wanted to go as lightweight as possible there's probably going to be a shell for that, it's just that this will allow you to do that but also easily switch right back to a large ergonomic shape with side buttons on both sides if you wanted to. Not to mention the fact that it's pretty much the only (or the only?) mouse that in addition to that will allow you to change the sensor position. That was the main idea for this project and always will be, it was never supposed to be a "Finalmouse killer" or WMO/FK clone for that matter even though it somehow was made out to be that.
09-21-2019 07:17 AM
Avalar
Quote: Originally Posted by RaleighStClair View Post
> you are wrong on many points here

No, we just have a difference of opinion. Everyone I know that backed this project - at the time - wanted a lighter, better, FK2/EC2. Now I am not sure what features you found most appealing about the project (i assume the adjustable sensor) but that doesn't make me "wrong". We have different goals/emphasis on what makes this project important. For example, I wanted a lightweight FK2 with: better scrollwheel, clicks, mousefeet, a mouse that included a "paracord" like cable out-of-the-box. This is also what most people - that I know - wanted; whether it be an Fk2 or EC2 shape. No one I know that backed this project even mentioned an adjustable sensor.

We just have different priorities.
The point of the project was to make a lightweight modular mouse for gaming. The features it has now came through later idea swapping on OC. It was never stated when the project first started that "This is a mouse for those who want a lighter/better FK2/EC2"; it's not even the same shape... The way the scrollwheel, clicks, mousefeet and cable feels can all be subjective, based on the user's preferences, however, most people would agree that other companies do it better.

"This is also what most people - that I know - wanted; whether it be an Fk2 or EC2 shape. No one I know that backed this project even mentioned an adjustable sensor."

To me, it just sounds like you didn't know what you were getting when you backed the project. All of the information for the mouse is on the page .
09-21-2019 06:30 AM
RaleighStClair
Quote: Originally Posted by chort View Post
even though I am quite dissapointed with the project by now, you are wrong on many points here, it was never about a zowie shape or the lightest possible mouse (although it should be as light as it possibly can without damaging integrity and the main functions of the mouse).
it was suppose to be a modular mouse that is centered around esports with an adjustable sensor position, which is 2 things the mainstream mouse market still don't have, and it seems like won't have in the near future, so it should appeal to the people that care about modularity and sensor position first, only then you can talk about THIS specific mouse being as light as possible, you can't have all the mentioned things and an ultralight weight.
but I can understand the frustration because it is a year overdue at the very least.
> you are wrong on many points here

No, we just have a difference of opinion. Everyone I know that backed this project - at the time - wanted a lighter, better, FK2/EC2. Now I am not sure what features you found most appealing about the project (i assume the adjustable sensor) but that doesn't make me "wrong". We have different goals/emphasis on what makes this project important. For example, I wanted a lightweight FK2 with: better scrollwheel, clicks, mousefeet, a mouse that included a "paracord" like cable out-of-the-box. This is also what most people - that I know - wanted; whether it be an Fk2 or EC2 shape. No one I know that backed this project even mentioned an adjustable sensor.

We just have different priorities.
09-21-2019 05:50 AM
chort
Quote: Originally Posted by RaleighStClair View Post
For the new page.

"Hi, I'm sorry I didn't reply to your PM yet. Its not so easy to refund because I can't directly refund back to your card, it has to be by bank transfer.

"Also its difficult to refund for the reason of not wanting the perk anymore, because if I refund you, then other people might start to want one too. At some point I have to say no because it puts the project in danger, and I can't refund everyone, so it would be a disaster where lots of people don't get their money back. So it is better to say no straight away, IMO."

"Having said that, if you have a good reason, like maybe you're getting evicted because you can't pay rent, or some other serious reason you might need the money back, then I will make an exception. But I would need proof, because, then anyone can just say, "I'm getting evicted", and its the same problem as before - if at some point I would have to ask for proof, then I should always ask for it. Sorry"
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____



No problem. I can't get a refund because I am not some hood rat that has no money. But this indigogo/kickstarter of your mouse has become a complete clusterfck. Not only is it a year late, it is now not going to be close to what was described in the indiegogo. My current mouse is 60g's in weight. What is the point of your mouse if it is as heavy as a Zowie? Zowie will def have a better shape -- and be cheaper; this ''project'' cost me over 100$ -- and now you WONT be lighter than zowie, you WONT have a better shape than an FK2/EC2.

You can buy an Model0- FK2 that weighs 58g's. You can buy a EC2A clone called Skoll that is 68g's in weight. What is the purpose of this mouse now? You made the wait for this mouse a year too late. Your competitors have passed you by. There are too many good options now. I can't get a refund, but now I am stuck waiting for a product that is too late to market that I wont use -- that is now going to be +15g of weight compared to the initial specs. If the goal - which I assume most people wanted - was to have a Zowie shape that is lighter, cheaper, then you have been beaten to the market over the last year and this indiegogo has failed... miserably.

By the time this mouse hits market at 80g+, we will be on 40g mice.
even though I am quite dissapointed with the project by now, you are wrong on many points here, it was never about a zowie shape or the lightest possible mouse (although it should be as light as it possibly can without damaging integrity and the main functions of the mouse).
it was suppose to be a modular mouse that is centered around esports with an adjustable sensor position, which is 2 things the mainstream mouse market still don't have, and it seems like won't have in the near future, so it should appeal to the people that care about modularity and sensor position first, only then you can talk about THIS specific mouse being as light as possible, you can't have all the mentioned things and an ultralight weight.
but I can understand the frustration because it is a year overdue at the very least.
09-21-2019 05:14 AM
RaleighStClair For the new page.

"Hi, I'm sorry I didn't reply to your PM yet. Its not so easy to refund because I can't directly refund back to your card, it has to be by bank transfer.

"Also its difficult to refund for the reason of not wanting the perk anymore, because if I refund you, then other people might start to want one too. At some point I have to say no because it puts the project in danger, and I can't refund everyone, so it would be a disaster where lots of people don't get their money back. So it is better to say no straight away, IMO."

"Having said that, if you have a good reason, like maybe you're getting evicted because you can't pay rent, or some other serious reason you might need the money back, then I will make an exception. But I would need proof, because, then anyone can just say, "I'm getting evicted", and its the same problem as before - if at some point I would have to ask for proof, then I should always ask for it. Sorry"
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____



No problem. I can't get a refund because I am not some hood rat that has no money. But this indigogo/kickstarter of your mouse has become a complete clusterfck. Not only is it a year late, it is now not going to be close to what was described in the indiegogo. My current mouse is 60g's in weight. What is the point of your mouse if it is as heavy as a Zowie? Zowie will def have a better shape -- and be cheaper; this ''project'' cost me over 100$ -- and now you WONT be lighter than zowie, you WONT have a better shape than an FK2/EC2.

You can buy an Model0- FK2 that weighs 58g's. You can buy a EC2A clone called Skoll that is 68g's in weight. What is the purpose of this mouse now? You made the wait for this mouse a year too late. Your competitors have passed you by. There are too many good options now. I can't get a refund, but now I am stuck waiting for a product that is too late to market that I wont use -- that is now going to be +15g of weight compared to the initial specs. If the goal - which I assume most people wanted - was to have a Zowie shape that is lighter, cheaper, then you have been beaten to the market over the last year and this indiegogo has failed... miserably.

By the time this mouse hits market at 80g+, we will be on 40g mice.
09-21-2019 04:46 AM
empyr I feel where you're coming from RaleighStClair. I've been wanting to get a refund for ages, however I was aware that it's been noted that you can't.

Overall, the mouse has taken way too long to produce, regardless of the issues that came up. I'm aware that's how backing projects this way usually go, but overall, a lot of things on the original list has changed. Speaking for myself personally, I don't see myself using it anymore now that are so many good options available and more coming.

Astrum is a fantastic idea and project nevertheless, I applaud you for doing it bst. However, I really do think you need to figure out a way to bring it back down to the 75-78 grams in all shapes.

Hopefully they actually see the light of day this year, but I'm actually a little bit afraid of how much import will be, and especially considering I won't use the mouse anymore. I imagine that's going to be fairly steep. :x
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