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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-06-2020 11:52 PM
J7SC [quote=Bartdude;28398340]
Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post

Don't know where you would purchase in the US but here in the UK we use THESE to cut copper pipe, The are precise and take seconds to cut.

Thanks.
...For normal pipe cutting, yes...I have several of those (bought here in Canada), but some of the copper pipe cuts were at an angle.
04-06-2020 11:38 PM
Bartdude [QUOTE=J7SC;28397862]When I first started the latest build project (sig link) and decided on some copper piping and such, I had a few serious shopping trips to HomeDepot...per attachment, I picked up that table saw, Carson hole saw and various other 'HD' related tools. The table saw blade (metal spec, incl. copper) made a huge racket (> 110 + db ?), apart from heating things up a lot. The Carson hole saws were also far less useful than anticipated.

The Dremel tool saved the day though - including being much better (and quicker) at cutting copper piping with the Dremel metal cutting wheels . The same holds for cutting through layers of the modular TT Core P5 metal to allow for custom connections between the 'front' panel (which houses mobo, dual GPUs, CPU, 2x 360/55 rads) and the back which houses a further 3x 360/55 rads, as well as 4x pumps, 2x reservoirs etc. And as others mentioned, for related plastic and acrylic cutting a small saw blade on a variable-speed drill did the trick.

The circular table saw and other equipment will still come in handy for other 'home improvement' projects, but for PC modding, Dremel and select small saw blades ( @ Gilles3000 ) are king, IMO

Don't know where you would purchase in the US but here in the UK we use THESE to cut copper pipe, The are precise and take seconds to cut.
04-06-2020 02:58 PM
Mooncheese
Quote: Originally Posted by sdmf74 View Post
Nice job! That's why use ZMT tubing but if I ever wanted to go clear I might tackle hard tubing but not necessary with this build.

Why the different fans? I just replaced all my NB eloops with the new EK fans if your interested in making all your fans match, unless of course you are not wanting to use the eloops for your pull fans for obvious reasons.

Just finished revamping my build too here's a couple updated pics, I had it on the work bench without monitor, keyboard etc So no RGB adjustment for pics. Please excuse the rainbow leds on the ram, I wish g skill wouldnt have chose rainbow mode as default.

@Rainmaker91 not too drag out the discussion about EG & PG in coolants but almost all companies that make coolants use a percentage of one or the other up to around 30-35%.
-XSPC ECX contains 50-80% PG in their premix
-MAYHEMS XT1 contains up to 90% EG.
(although I assume they are referring to the concentrate).

I just made my first batch of DIY coolant and used only 5% propylene Glycol. I will report back if any issues, it is a brand new reservoir so should be easy to tell.
Seems to be within 1 degree of the previous EK coolant I was using.

IM DONE spending $44 on 2 liters of coolant when I can make 30 liters for about $27!
No wonder why EK pushes their coolant so hard
Nice build! When I first realized I had a discolored soft tubing problem (EK Duraclear) I initially explored EK's ZMT tubing as an option but was worried that it would clash with my high RGB build. I see now that it can look nice, as it does with yours, I like how the RGB spill on it coming from your VRM shroud, ZMT has a nice look to it, but I felt that I was being called to dive into hard-tubing and decided to accept the challenge and skip right over 12/8 PETG for 14/10 Acrylic considering I couldn't decide between 12 or 16 OD tubing and 10 ID is the same size as the fitting orifices so there is zero loss of diameter from fitting to tubing and I felt 16 OD was a bit too wide, even with a larger case (View 71).

Concerning EK's Cryofuel, I had a serious problem with some that I recently purchased that ended up putting white gunk in my loop. At first I thought it was plasticizer (I have that too, lime green goo in the bottom of my front rad, no way to get it out from what I gather) but no it was from the Cryofuel. So for now I'm just using pure distilled water. I should explore kill coils, or just put a piece of silver in the distro plate as a safety measure to ward of micro-biota growth.

Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post
Tx - I like yours above, too
Per attachment, the fastest I can get a single card to with GPUz 'render' (< fairly light load) is 2235 MHz @ 1.06x-1.07x (GPUz vs MSI AB). Both GB Aorus WB Xtreme were new (Dec '18 build), and both have unique custom PCBs, and both have Micron VRAM. Samsung would have been preferable, but Micron runs slightly tighter timings, though apparently a bit hotter. 'Typical' GPU game clocks are 2190 to 2205 for a single card, with VRAM around 2061 - 2075 max before FPS drop, though no artifacts

As to 'Micron memory failure', I think we already had that discussion...2080 (non-Ti) with the same VRAM and controller were not affected, and since most, though not all, early 2080 Ti used Micron and OEM style PCBs (some of which had a manufacturing and testing problem NVidia finally confirmed), Micron was fingered, never mind that there were also a few Samsung-equipped 2080 Ti cards that failed...not looking for yet another discussion on this, but here's a decent write-up which came out after initial 'specialist' writers and YouTubers had their say https://www.techspot.com/news/77445-...-ti-cards.html


Going back to the thread-theme of water-cooling, 2nd attachment below shows GPU MHz - temp relationship for 2080 Ti (from THW). Cooling these cards as much is possible is important and rewarding performance wise. On my build, I use separate CPU and GPU loops...the GPU loop on its own has 2x D5 pumps and 3x RX360 (360/55) rads. Even with Unigine Superposition 8K run for BOTH cards per NVLink (long and stressful bench), temps went from 23 C ambient to no higher than 36 C. So no matter what the card model, VRAM or silicone lottery draw, water-cooling makes a lot of sense with these (unless one has a sibling who knows how to poor LN2 while one games for hours )

Ok time for me to come clean, I actually did purchase a used GB WF Xtreme from ebay, I won the auction at $1169 and with tax it came out to $1309! Yikes! I immediately was filled with remorse, like I had zero excitement upon winning the auction. When it arrived I was in awe at the heft and craftsmanship but while I was waiting for it to arrive I learned about the high failure Micron memory failure rate and then it dawned on me that the relative glut of this variant on ebay from the same seller were in all likelihood refurbished units that suffered from Micron memory failure from GB. The card had a "30 day warranty / return window" and when it arrived I availed myself of it, not wanting to experience micron memory failure on day 31 of the 30 day return window and be sitting with a $1309 paper-weight. About 2 weeks after then, after scouring both ebay and craigslist for used 2080 Ti on a daily basis I found a 300a unit that was pulled from an Alienware Aurora that was listed both on ebay and on CL (same listing, ebay seller with 400 100% positive feedback) who agreed to terminate the listing for local sale @ $700. After meeting with them I learned he also had a Phanteks Glacier WB and I offered $750 for the card + WB. I should have inquired about the memory type before going through with it but the deal was too good to pass up. The seller also gave me a rather ornate, machined back-plate with recesses for two small fans (fans included) that they said helped bring the temp of the card down by 5C. I thought it was overkill at the time, but when I got home and put the WB on with the factory Aurora back-plate, after gaming and benchmarking a bit I felt the backplate and it was PIPING hot, like I'm talking cook an egg on it hot, like you wouldn't want to keep your hand on the back-plate for more than 5-10 seconds, near uncomfortably hot. It was so hot that I ran +0 MHz on the memory because just +500 MHz exacerbated the issue. I then made the fatal error of replacing the Aurora back-plate for EK's Quantum (polished nickel, as seen in my build vlog) back-plate that, per the instructions and by design, did not recommend placing thermal pads between it and the back-side of the PCB where the memory banks were. It was only 3-4 days after swapping the back-plate out did the card die. I explain this somewhere along the line in my build vlog but I remember after changing out the back-plate noticing how the GPU core temp dropped from 48-50C to 42-43C and failing to understand / attribute this to the fact that the memory modules were no longer dealing with the heat through the back-plate > GPU thermal pad > GPU core > water block (hence core temp dropping 5-7C) It was then that I realized the purpose of the ornate machined back-plate, which I will include pictures of below. Fast forward to about a month later of trying to secure an EVGA variant with Samsung GDDR6 for under $1000 (I feel incredibly lucky to have acquired my XC2, which does +1100 MHz memory, 2070 MHz core @ 1.013v @ 340w with 2.5 years remaining on the warranty for $900) and I was really surprised that the same back-plate is now luke-warm, borderline cool to the touch even at +1100 MHz on the memory. The Micron memory had to have exceeded 90-100C before failing. Given how hot that back-plate was I'm certain that it was at 90C even with the back-plate (but no sensors nor IR thermometer to verify). The memory temp now is that one bank runs at what the core runs at (40-48C) and the others run around 5C under that. The irony that I was worried about Micron memory failure with the GB WF Xtreme and then experienced first-hand with a different card only a short time later isn't lost on me.

At this point I'm not even entirely sure as to whether or not the failure of the card was due to inadequate thermal pad contact with the modules and the water-block given that the previous owner felt the need to use this machined back-plate in conjunction with the WB. Given the myriad reports of early 2080 Ti catching on fire (yes, literally catching on fire), given the high inventory of GB WF Xtreme from only one particular seller on ebay (100% certain they are all refurbished / having suffered memory failure at some point), given the multiple anecdotal reports of Micron memory failure (one here in recent past amounted to "I went through 4 2080 Ti, 3 with Micron memory failed, and the one I have now that didn't has Samsung memory) let alone the fact that Nvidia saw fit to drop Micron altogether from all the cards that they themselves sell I'm most certain that the high heat from the memory contributed to premature failure. Youre not going to see it with 36C load temps on the core with 3x 360 radiator allocated just to the GPU, but ask yourself, who else has that much rad surface area solely for this GPU? I have a 420 and 360 radiator shared by both CPU monoblock and GPU and that's above average in terms of rad surface area. Normal temps with GB WF Xtreme are around 45-50C if I remember correctly with avg. above avg. rad surface area, and if that memory behaved the same as it did under my phanteks block at 45-50C core then that would explain the high failure rate of just this variant and hence the high number of them on ebay from one particular seller (who is probably buying them in volume directly from GB at discount, or for all we know, this is GB's ebay account and this is how they reduce the cost of RMA replacement on their end).

2200 MHz is incredible, and part of me is kicking myself in the ass for not just holding onto that card considering that I'm now out -$750 (+$400, amazingly I managed to sell the broken 300a card listed as "Broken, for parts" on ebay) -$900 (XC2 Ultra) = $1250 or around the same amount of money for 2080 Ti had I simply kept that GB WF Xtreme. Would that memory have failed? Who knows, possibly? Consolation is that memory speed is of utmost importance to RT apparently and this Samsung does at least +1100 MHz (10% difference between +500 and +1200 MHz in Port Royal!) and the ICX sensors and 2.5 years remaining on the warranty are of utmost importance to me. I was afraid that GB's RMA procedure was replacement of failed sub-component / memory with like-kind. If they simply swap out failed Micron memory for new and turn around and flip those units on ebay with no warranty, that is a gamble I don't recommend anyone take.

As for water-cooled performance, nothing beats it! Here's superposition. I can't believe 2080 Ti FE on air drops all the way to 1650 MHz at the end of Superposition @ 80C! That's an insane performance drop. Water-cooling is hands down the way to go. 2080 Ti FE Port Royal is only 7950! My card under water is 9200 @ +500 Mem and 10,200 +1200 MHz on the memory (8k to 10k = 25% gain) That's 12.5% faster from core and another 12.5% faster from memory overclock keeping core above 2050 MHz through the bench!

I forgot to mention that another concern of my with GB WF XTreme is the way the card is assembled, leaving the owner no way to service the block / change TIM. Apparently there is no way to take the card apart to do this? I mean great looking card, and it would have fit my motherboard perfectly, but Micron memory, inability to service the card, and fairly high price had me looking elsewhere for my 2080 Ti upgrade.


Your 2 Way 2080 Ti SLI score is incredible though accounting for scaling loss, if I multiply my 8k score by 2 it's still just shy of yours.



Quote: Originally Posted by ishay View Post
4 years old build and still going strong
That's very spacious, does that help with temps? Looks good either way, love how clean it is, and the water temp gauge is a nice touch, just hoping that water temp sensor isn't aluminum like the one Bykski sells (love their fittings though, half the price of EK and they exceed EK in quality, looks and feel)
04-06-2020 01:41 PM
jura11
Quote: Originally Posted by Rainmaker91 View Post
As far as I know HW labs has 2 series of rads as far as dimentions go, the Nemesis and SR2 all have extra wide cores and 140mm rads measure 153mm wide. Then there is the narrower L series wihich roughly measures 140mm wide for 140mm fans. The Corsair measurements are very likely not 100% as they seem to just round the numbers, however the HWLabs measurements that you list is for their wider radiators and not the L series.

Edit: I noticed just now that you had the answers Oh, well I still can't figure out why HWLabs don't list their L series rads on their webpage though, seems somewhat counterproductive.
Hi there

L-series or LS/LX series are their OEM radiators or radiators supplied to OEM or any brand manufacturer like is Corsair, Bitspower and system builders and due this probably you will not find these radiators on their(HWLabs) website

I have run 4 of these radiators on my loop and performance is not bad although still I would recommend get GTS rather than these ones, L series are restrictive radiators as first, swapped them for HWLabs SR-2 360mm

Hope this helps

Thanks, Jura
04-06-2020 01:32 PM
J7SC When I first started the latest build project (sig link) and decided on some copper piping and such, I had a few serious shopping trips to HomeDepot...per attachment, I picked up that table saw, Carson hole saw and various other 'HD' related tools. The table saw blade (metal spec, incl. copper) made a huge racket (> 110 + db ?), apart from heating things up a lot. The Carson hole saws were also far less useful than anticipated.

The Dremel tool saved the day though - including being much better (and quicker) at cutting copper piping with the Dremel metal cutting wheels . The same holds for cutting through layers of the modular TT Core P5 metal to allow for custom connections between the 'front' panel (which houses mobo, dual GPUs, CPU, 2x 360/55 rads) and the back which houses a further 3x 360/55 rads, as well as 4x pumps, 2x reservoirs etc. And as others mentioned, for related plastic and acrylic cutting a small saw blade on a variable-speed drill did the trick.

The circular table saw and other equipment will still come in handy for other 'home improvement' projects, but for PC modding, Dremel and select small saw blades ( @ Gilles3000 ) are king, IMO





04-06-2020 01:03 PM
Rainmaker91
Quote: Originally Posted by Gilles3000 View Post
For some plastics, especially ones that melt quickly, the small saw blades can work better than the grindling disks.

So it you're having trouble with the conventional disks, they're worth the try.
I hadn't considered the saw blade ones. I have indeed had some issues with melting plastics, especially when cutting acrylics. I'll make a note to get some of those blades.
04-06-2020 11:35 AM
Gilles3000
Quote: Originally Posted by Rainmaker91 View Post
So I'm curious what you prefer using.
For some plastics, especially ones that melt quickly, the small saw blades can work better than the grindling disks.

So it you're having trouble with the conventional disks, they're worth the try.
04-06-2020 11:07 AM
ishay
Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post
...I started sheepishly with cutting square openings into two older Antec 300 side-covers for wire mesh windows (wasn't that 'pretty')...graduated to on older NZXT Phantom re. some of its innards for extra rad space. Then last year, the new TT Core P5 build needed some extra cutting to enlarge mobo pass-throughs (for E-ATX), and additional cutting for copper piping and tubing. Ezee pezee

LONG LIVE DREMEL
Well my first time using the dremel was actually for DIY electric skateboard project I built.
Cutting the 900D was one of my first as well, luckily it turned out OK
04-06-2020 10:12 AM
Hequaqua Well....after seeing some of these beautiful rigs....I'll post my rework....

I decided to go from hardline back to soft tubing. It's just so much easier to work with, and maintain in my opinion.

I am replacing the "blue" 3-way splitter with a black one, and the valve with a white one. I also decided to cut in a filter(just to be on the safe side and keep everything nice and clean). Those parts are on their way. Who knows on shipping though.

I like it...I guess that's all that counts.

Enjoy!

A little video I shot the other day..........


Pics:

04-06-2020 10:03 AM
J7SC
Quote: Originally Posted by Rainmaker91 View Post
If you don't mind me asking, what are your preferred cutting plates? I have tried a lot of different ones for both metal and plastic cutting, and I always end up on the fibreglass disks for all cutting purposes. The ones with a diamond coated edge do last longer when cutting steel, but they take forever to actually cut through anything. The cheap fibre disks that come with any dremmel kit (the red/brown ones) are decent for cutting plastics, but break way to quickly to be worth it on longer tasks.

So I'm curious what you prefer using.

...I use the metal ones to cut the initial groove along the pre-taped and scribed lines, then switch to the fiberglass ones. The 'assorted' kit below (HomeDepot) is great and don't cost much (btw, the NZXT Phantom mod is just a bit visible in the background).
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