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10-18-2019 09:12 AM
SpeedyIV
Quote: Originally Posted by Lupo91 View Post
I also have the Corsair MP-600 1Tb, performance is poor in 4K, and I don't understand why.

I also tried the Aorus Gen4 1Tb, but more or less the same

Both have poor performance in 4K
You might find this interesting to read.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...ie_gen_4_slow/
10-18-2019 08:56 AM
The Stilt
Quote: Originally Posted by rv8000 View Post
If Fmax, Vmax, PPT, TDC, and EDC are not being hit, and I'm sitting at 49-50c in single core bench's workloads why would a 3700X not boost higher or at least try to boost higher and crash?

With PBO Enabled and +200mhz set for Auto OC, PPT is set to 395w max, TDC and EDC are set 255a max, yet I peak at 4425mhz at 1.438v, ~65mV away from the Vmax limit AMD set for PBO while being miles away from the PPT, TDC and EDC limits. Sounds like something isn't working properly.

You mention Vmax can be lower for certain cores? What controls or dictates the limit? On-die hardware limitations? CPU side microcode limitations? Or is it a general thing within the AGESA code?
The thing is that you cannot tell if Vmax is being hit or not, since there is no "flag" to indicate that.
Same goes for FIT, but with FIT you can at least ensure that its not the limit (by using PBO Scalar).

Frankly I do not know what exactly causes the Vmax to be lower on certain cores, or in certain workloads, but I'd assume it has something to do with SIDD (leakage).

I'll see if I can find a way to provide more data on this and the general behavior.
10-18-2019 02:56 AM
zsoltmol
Quote: Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by rv8000 View Post
Obviously it's not as simple as this but:

Depending on the binning process you may get a 3800X that boosts to 4.5ghz @ 1.45v for single core loads.

Someone has a 3700X that boosts to 4.4ghz @ 1.4v for single core loads.

If PBO+Auto OC is based on microcode/software limitations at X value for TDP, amperage, temperature, voltage, etc... wouldn't an improved PBO algorithm theoretically let the 3700X boost higher when all of those criteria have not been exceeded? And in this specific situation AMD theoretically (and also in practice 65w vs 105w TDP) allowed the 3800X to hit a much higher PPT, TDC, and EDC, (enabling PBO and auto OC "should" allow for a higher PPT, TDC, and EDC than a stock 3800X).

I thought this was everyone's initial take away from Hallocks infamous video about PBO and Ryzen 3000, and why everyone was ticked off that it essentially did nothing. Seriously though, what's the point of having a +200mhz auto OC option for PBO and only getting 25mhz when I'm not hitting any of the 3 PBO limitations. Sure not every processor is the same but this sounds more like microcode/software limitation than hardware.



A direct quote from AMD stating it's a firmware limitation
No, it is simple as that.

Outside of PPT, TDC, EDC and the temperature (which generally are not an issue in ST workloads anyway), there are three different things which determine the maximum boost: Fmax (adjustable), FIT (adjustable) and Vmax (fixed ceil, floor provided in 1.0.0.4).

If Fmax (advertised max frequency + OC offset) is greater than your currently achieavable frequency, you are either limited by FIT or Vmax. If in this case increasing the PBO Scalar (aka FIT limit, aka reliability reduction) won't work, you are limited by Vmax (core specific V/F) and you are out of luck. A significant reduction in temperature is probably the only thing which would help at this point.

The Vmax limit is 1.5000V for all SKUs (at least for the current consumer line-up) and it is not adjustable. For some invidual cores or workloads it can be lower than that, but NEVER higher.
AGESA 1.0.0.4 will provide a control to lower the Vmax, but not to increase it (for obvious reasons). Lowering the Vmax will limit the maximum voltage requested by the cores to the set value during the peak boost, but obviously it will lower the achievable frequencies as well.
Really useful info!

What is the suggested SOC and Vmax voltage for 3900X? I use negativ offset for both now (-0.03 for Vmax -0.03250 for SOC) and my CPU seems to boost higher in all situations. I let it to auto adjust Vmax with the negative offset so I dont use fixed voltages.

voltage ragnges according to HWinfo during various loads:
CPU 0.296-1.464
CPU during Cinebench R20 all core test: 1.288v

SOC 1.056-1.080v
SOC during Cinebench R20 all core test: 1.056v

PBO enabled with motherboard limits, scalar 1x, OC MHz is +0 resulting 4600MHz max freq.

Cooling is not an issue in my case its well managed by a potent custom loop with 2 large radiators.
10-17-2019 07:08 PM
rv8000
Quote: Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
No, it is simple as that.

Outside of PPT, TDC, EDC and the temperature (which generally are not an issue in ST workloads anyway), there are three different things which determine the maximum boost: Fmax (adjustable), FIT (adjustable) and Vmax (fixed ceil, floor provided in 1.0.0.4).

If Fmax (advertised max frequency + OC offset) is greater than your currently achieavable frequency, you are either limited by FIT or Vmax. If in this case increasing the PBO Scalar (aka FIT limit, aka reliability reduction) won't work, you are limited by Vmax (core specific V/F) and you are out of luck. A significant reduction in temperature is probably the only thing which would help at this point.

The Vmax limit is 1.5000V for all SKUs (at least for the current consumer line-up) and it is not adjustable. For some invidual cores or workloads it can be lower than that, but NEVER higher.
AGESA 1.0.0.4 will provide a control to lower the Vmax, but not to increase it (for obvious reasons). Lowering the Vmax will limit the maximum voltage requested by the cores to the set value during the peak boost, but obviously it will lower the achievable frequencies as well.
If Fmax, Vmax, PPT, TDC, and EDC are not being hit, and I'm sitting at 49-50c in single core bench's workloads why would a 3700X not boost higher or at least try to boost higher and crash?

With PBO Enabled and +200mhz set for Auto OC, PPT is set to 395w max, TDC and EDC are set 255a max, yet I peak at 4425mhz at 1.438v, ~65mV away from the Vmax limit AMD set for PBO while being miles away from the PPT, TDC and EDC limits. Sounds like something isn't working properly.

You mention Vmax can be lower for certain cores? What controls or dictates the limit? On-die hardware limitations? CPU side microcode limitations? Or is it a general thing within the AGESA code?
10-17-2019 04:20 PM
The Stilt
Quote: Originally Posted by rv8000 View Post
Obviously it's not as simple as this but:

Depending on the binning process you may get a 3800X that boosts to 4.5ghz @ 1.45v for single core loads.

Someone has a 3700X that boosts to 4.4ghz @ 1.4v for single core loads.

If PBO+Auto OC is based on microcode/software limitations at X value for TDP, amperage, temperature, voltage, etc... wouldn't an improved PBO algorithm theoretically let the 3700X boost higher when all of those criteria have not been exceeded? And in this specific situation AMD theoretically (and also in practice 65w vs 105w TDP) allowed the 3800X to hit a much higher PPT, TDC, and EDC, (enabling PBO and auto OC "should" allow for a higher PPT, TDC, and EDC than a stock 3800X).

I thought this was everyone's initial take away from Hallocks infamous video about PBO and Ryzen 3000, and why everyone was ticked off that it essentially did nothing. Seriously though, what's the point of having a +200mhz auto OC option for PBO and only getting 25mhz when I'm not hitting any of the 3 PBO limitations. Sure not every processor is the same but this sounds more like microcode/software limitation than hardware.



A direct quote from AMD stating it's a firmware limitation
No, it is simple as that.

Outside of PPT, TDC, EDC and the temperature (which generally are not an issue in ST workloads anyway), there are three different things which determine the maximum boost: Fmax (adjustable), FIT (adjustable) and Vmax (fixed ceil, floor provided in 1.0.0.4).

If Fmax (advertised max frequency + OC offset) is greater than your currently achieavable frequency, you are either limited by FIT or Vmax. If in this case increasing the PBO Scalar (aka FIT limit, aka reliability reduction) won't work, you are limited by Vmax (core specific V/F) and you are out of luck. A significant reduction in temperature is probably the only thing which would help at this point.

The Vmax limit is 1.5000V for all SKUs (at least for the current consumer line-up) and it is not adjustable. For some invidual cores or workloads it can be lower than that, but NEVER higher.
AGESA 1.0.0.4 will provide a control to lower the Vmax, but not to increase it (for obvious reasons). Lowering the Vmax will limit the maximum voltage requested by the cores to the set value during the peak boost, but obviously it will lower the achievable frequencies as well.
10-17-2019 01:55 PM
SeeGee Your results are better than mine to be honest. Can you run Atto Disk Benchmark and post your results? It has better granularity than CDM. I'll post my results when I get home and you'll see what I mean.
10-17-2019 11:43 AM
rv8000
Quote: Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
There is no way to improve hardware limits through software.

1.0.0.4 implements more features & control.
Obviously it's not as simple as this but:

Depending on the binning process you may get a 3800X that boosts to 4.5ghz @ 1.45v for single core loads.

Someone has a 3700X that boosts to 4.4ghz @ 1.4v for single core loads.

If PBO+Auto OC is based on microcode/software limitations at X value for TDP, amperage, temperature, voltage, etc... wouldn't an improved PBO algorithm theoretically let the 3700X boost higher when all of those criteria have not been exceeded? And in this specific situation AMD theoretically (and also in practice 65w vs 105w TDP) allowed the 3800X to hit a much higher PPT, TDC, and EDC, (enabling PBO and auto OC "should" allow for a higher PPT, TDC, and EDC than a stock 3800X).

I thought this was everyone's initial take away from Hallocks infamous video about PBO and Ryzen 3000, and why everyone was ticked off that it essentially did nothing. Seriously though, what's the point of having a +200mhz auto OC option for PBO and only getting 25mhz when I'm not hitting any of the 3 PBO limitations. Sure not every processor is the same but this sounds more like microcode/software limitation than hardware.

Quote:
“this feature will not guarantee the higher boost clock on any number of cores. The frequency/cores/boost duration will still depend on the firmware-managed limits, even though those limits are higher than OEM when PBO has been enabled.”
A direct quote from AMD stating it's a firmware limitation
10-17-2019 10:43 AM
The Stilt
Quote: Originally Posted by rv8000 View Post
If you can comment on the 1.0.0.4 bios, have you noticed any changes in PBO behavior? Most notably will PBO try to boost closer to the added frequency range set in bios (limit is up to +200mhz?)

PBO changes was one of the things Hallock posted/talked about in the reddit post afaik, and it would be nice to see my pbo boost higher than 25mhz when my power/temp are well within limits (boosting to 4425 on 3700x @ 49c avg in single core tasks @ ~1.43v).
There is no way to improve hardware limits through software.

1.0.0.4 implements more features & control.
10-17-2019 10:33 AM
rv8000
Quote: Originally Posted by centvalny View Post
C8I 0050 BIOS agesa 1.0.0.4

Fix Incorrect MemClkFreq above DDR-5000.
Add micron/spectek DDR4-5000 auto tuning rule.
Add SK Hynix DJR DDR4-5000 memory preset.
Add memory OC fail count, 0 is disabled will not recovery setting and enter safe mode, max 10-times retry.
Add BCLK fraction function.

No cb

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uq3l4dsy5x...-0050.CAP?dl=0

https://community.hwbot.org/topic/19...comment-541697

If you can comment on the 1.0.0.4 bios, have you noticed any changes in PBO behavior? Most notably will PBO try to boost closer to the added frequency range set in bios (limit is up to +200mhz?)

PBO changes was one of the things Hallock posted/talked about in the reddit post afaik, and it would be nice to see my pbo boost higher than 25mhz when my power/temp are well within limits (boosting to 4425 on 3700x @ 49c avg in single core tasks @ ~1.43v).
10-17-2019 07:32 AM
Lupo91
Quote: Originally Posted by SeeGee View Post
I am using a Corsair MP600 pcie 4.0 ssd, but I am having trouble with its write speeds fluctuating considerably and am in progress on diagnosing the issue. I will keep you posted with any information I have.


I also have the Corsair MP-600 1Tb, performance is poor in 4K, and I don't understand why.


I also tried the Aorus Gen4 1Tb, but more or less the same

Here is the CrystalMark of Corsair MP-600 1 TB






Here is the CrystalMark of Aorus Gen 4 1TB






Both have poor performance in 4K
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