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Thread: [Tom's Hardware] AMD Flute SoC Rumored for Xbox Project Scarlett Sees First Leak Reply to Thread
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07-30-2019 06:27 AM
Darklyric
Quote: Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post
And why couldnt they? An 8 core Zen2 chiplet is about 80mm2 in size. Pretty small really. As long as they clock it lower the power draw will be quite low as well.
Right zen2 would use less power just from the node jump alone. Has anyone done a power consumption per clock like the stilt did when zen1 launched for zen2?
07-29-2019 11:05 AM
jtom320
Quote: Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post
Remember that 80mm has no IO so it’s not telling the whole story, I don’t know how much area they need for IO but then the advantage of the APU is you only need one IO for both CPU and GPU so technically it is slightly more area efficient in that way. Which is not to say that monolithic dies are more cost effective, but in the case of an APU you’ve potentially eliminated a bit of redundancy.
GPGPU functionality was the foundation of the PS4/XOne and that allowed proper CPU compute to stagnate, back then everyone had doubts about the future of console hardware (PSNow is about as old as the PS4) so that was a prime motivation to skimp on chip size. Today it seems both Sony and Microsoft have doubled down on hardware so that should bode well for the new CPU layout.

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-conte...05/History.png
I think this graph says it all. Power Draw was down significantly on PS4/XOne vs PS3/360. Hopefully that trend will be reversed this generation.
The guy who initially quoted me brought up a pretty good point though. We are on 7nm and if they clock these things at 1.8ghz they're going to sip power. Luckily for us this will still be a HUGE improvement over Jaguar cores and leave room for as much Na'vi as they can cram in.

Which brings me to the area I disagree with you though. The PS3 and the 360 had dedi GPUs. I don't think we'll ever see a console with a dedicated GPU again. Not when they can still squeeze the performance they can out of what's in the base PS4. I mean games like God of War and The new Last of US look incredible even without the boost from the PS4 pro.

So I doubt they are going to up the power envelope. But just the same I think they'll be able to put together a pretty excellent little design. Probably native 4k on most games or close to it on the games that really push the graphics side + the increased options you get from a CPU that will be orders of magnitude more powerful then those little jaguar cores.

As an aside I'm really curious about the memory config on these next gen consoles. Usually you see huge jumps. We went from 512mb to 8gb on last generation. I can't see these new machines using more then 12. Who knows though. 16 would be great but I think they'd have to split pools because I really can't imagine them putting that much G6 in a console.
07-29-2019 10:55 AM
ILoveHighDPI
Quote: Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post
And why couldnt they? An 8 core Zen2 chiplet is about 80mm2 in size. Pretty small really. As long as they clock it lower the power draw will be quite low as well.
Remember that 80mm has no IO so it’s not telling the whole story, I don’t know how much area they need for IO but then the advantage of the APU is you only need one IO for both CPU and GPU so technically it is slightly more area efficient in that way. Which is not to say that monolithic dies are more cost effective, but in the case of an APU you’ve potentially eliminated a bit of redundancy.
GPGPU functionality was the foundation of the PS4/XOne and that allowed proper CPU compute to stagnate, back then everyone had doubts about the future of console hardware (PSNow is about as old as the PS4) so that was a prime motivation to skimp on chip size. Today it seems both Sony and Microsoft have doubled down on hardware so that should bode well for the new CPU layout.

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-conte...05/History.png
I think this graph says it all. Power Draw was down significantly on PS4/XOne vs PS3/360. Hopefully that trend will be reversed this generation.
I’d love to see a console actually drawing 300watts from the wall.
07-28-2019 07:36 PM
EniGma1987
Quote: Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post
They can't be using full fat Ryzen 2 cores can they?
And why couldnt they? An 8 core Zen2 chiplet is about 80mm2 in size. Pretty small really. As long as they clock it lower the power draw will be quite low as well.
07-28-2019 12:49 PM
jtom320 They can't be using full fat Ryzen 2 cores can they?

I mean it'd be great if they were. Every time the console baseline jumps we generally see pretty great leaps in graphics.

Also I imagine this will have some MS specific features. Microsoft mentioned Ray-Tracing which AMD themselves have been rather shy about talking about. I'd love to see some dedicated ray tracing hardware on one of the next gen machines on an AMD chip specifically. We could see ray-tracing in a real way over the next few years if that were to happen rather then RTX support getting added to games after we don't care about the game anymore.
07-27-2019 10:03 PM
SyncMaster753
Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Just a buy a console then and install different OS on it if you want that hardware.
I'm hoping that the convergence of the xbox and PC platform makes it so I wont need to.
I don't expect to see steam or anything, but full M+KB support and continuity with PC would make Scarlett more attractive to me.

Maybe their recent push for Gamepass Ultimate subscribers will entice developers to get on the program for more crossplay titles.
07-25-2019 01:23 PM
TheRacker
Quote: Originally Posted by mothergoose729 View Post

I'm not so sure about that. Ryzen 2 consumer parts aren't clocked that much higher, and they easily push past 95 watts under a heavy load without adding in the power draw of the igpu.
Power draw isn't linear with clock speed though, 3.2ghz could be around the voltage sweet spot for ryzen and draw half the power that it would at 4.0ghz like the consumer chips. It also might only boost 4 cores that high, then the power draw would really drop down. But 25w does seem a bit optimistic.
07-25-2019 12:55 PM
bigjdubb
Quote: Originally Posted by delboy67 View Post
Your post implies amd is a manufacturer and sony/ms own the ip? Amd own the ip so they could in theory make a similar apu and sell it if they wanted. What I mean is they havent released anything at all for the diy or even laptop market that might directly compete with the console apus.
AMD will release something with the same architecture (navi and ryzen 2), but it will be an AM4 apu. My guess is that the solution for MS and Sony will be very different packaging that doesn't have a standard apu in a socket. There probably won't be anything replaceable whatever AMD provides them, similar to the ps4

07-25-2019 10:58 AM
Lee Patekar
Quote: Originally Posted by delboy67 View Post
Your post implies amd is a manufacturer and sony/ms own the ip? Amd own the ip so they could in theory make a similar apu and sell it if they wanted. What I mean is they havent released anything at all for the diy or even laptop market that might directly compete with the console apus.
Laptops don't have a shared memory architecture CPU/GPU like the consoles where one uses GDDR memory and the other has some cache specialty thing.. and both have slower clocks and not based of Zen cores. I expect to see better laptop APUs using Zen 2 at the next release but I wouldn't expect them to have the same graphics power as the consoles.. mostly due to power limitations and market needs. If I want a gaming laptop I don't want an APU.
07-25-2019 08:57 AM
JackCY
Quote: Originally Posted by delboy67 View Post
Your post implies amd is a manufacturer and sony/ms own the ip? Amd own the ip so they could in theory make a similar apu and sell it if they wanted. What I mean is they havent released anything at all for the diy or even laptop market that might directly compete with the console apus.
Just a buy a console then and install different OS on it if you want that hardware.
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