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Thread: Is delidding a 9900k worth it? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-14-2020 05:46 PM
chibi
Quote: Originally Posted by Bram1982 View Post
Yes, worth it. But in my opinion only if you go direct die because only then the gained improvement is substantial enough to take the risk (and lose your warranty)

For a degree or 5... I wouldn't bother, but for the 13 degrees I gained with going direct die with a Noctua D15 it was worth it. CPU's are not typically things that suddenly cause problems (unlike videocards, harddrives, mainboards and memory modules). And I'm more of a 'set-it-and-forget-it' guy that doesn't look for extreme 24/7 overclocks. So I think the risk of my CPU suddenly breaking in the future is very low.

That being said: Going direct die can be just as safe as with a heatspreader, but you need to be VERY precise and careful in how you mount your cooler. Also you must use a support frame with precise thickness. In my case I designed and 3D printed frame similar to the one from RockitCool and Der8auer.

You can download it here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4118891

Going direct die is all about evenly distributing the pressure from your cooler. And the best way to do that is when a bit of pressure is applied to the CPU die for good contact and the rest of the pressure is distributed on the PCB that surrounds it. This means A) The underside of your cooler has to be perfectly flat and B) the 3D printed part that covers the PCB area around the CPU die must be the same height as that CPU die. It's all about creating an even surface between CPU die and the surrounding PCB.

In my case I made the 3D print in such a way that the core sits ever so slightly higher (like less then a tenth of a mm) compared to the thickness of the printed frame. This ensures the CPU core makes good contact with the cooler. When the cooler is pressed down firmly, the ever so slightly flex of the PCB the core sits on causes the cooler to distribute the rest of its pressure to the PCB.

I did have to sand down the underside of my Noctua D15 since it was not perfectly flat. Luckely that's very easy. Just get a glass mirror and put some fine grit sandpaper on it. Next, place the cooler on top of it and start working until its flat.

For your D15, did you use LM or TIM on the direct die application?
02-11-2020 06:17 PM
bp7178
Quote: Originally Posted by Sedril View Post
The more I think about that direct die the more I want to do it... I'm mainly concerned with damage to the cpu due to the solder, but sounds like that's rare... I don't see anything about the warranty on Rockit88's site, but that is the company I purchased the kit for my 7700k from and it was very well made....

To those that have used this, the frame just holds the CPU in the socket but does not come in contact with the waterblock, correct? I can't tell from the videos and pictures if the CPU die is even with the frame or sits slightly above it... So the entire force would be only on the die.. So I assume you would make sure to not over tighten the waterblock.........
Yes, the frame just holds CPU down. You may have to lap the frame too if you are aggressive with your die lapping. For about $18 you can buy sets of contact pressure paper which will allow you to see how well the coldplate is contacting the die. I could visibly see that the top of the die was lower than the top edge of the frame so I lapped it down. I didn't bother painting it again as its just aluminium. Normally the die is slightly above the frame.

Any die lapping has to be done after all of the solder is removed. Its cringe worthy when people scrape their cpu with a razor to get it off. Just put some liquid metal or the stuff Rockitcool sells on it and agitate it with a q-tip. It will dissolve the solder in ten or so minutes and your die will be perfectly clean after a gentle polish with a q-tip.

You may have to adjust how your waterblock mounts too. With an EK block you cannot use the EK supplied studs. They will NOT allow the block to be held on. I found this out when testing with the contact paper. Someone here was told by Rockitcool to just remove the washers but this does not allow the block to clamp onto the CPU. Only the surface tension of the TIM used will hold the block on. You can tighten everything down and life the block off of the CPU by a millimeter or so.

I had to get some M3 screws and use them in combination with the EK backplate. They ended up having the same height over the front of the MB as the studs when installed but they don't have the finger knurling which gets in the way. I pushed them through the backplate and used nuts and washers to anchor them in place. Be careful not to over tighten them though as you can loose memory DIMM channels. Getting them back can be as simple as loosening them a 1/2 turn, so don't be too worried. The M3 studs allowed me to use the EK finger nuts and springs. I pushed down slightly on all corners of the CPU just to make sure it was seated all the way. On one of the corners the frame for the block got hung up on the threads for the M3 stud but a slight push down corrected this.
02-11-2020 04:31 PM
Sedril
Quote: Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
I really think if you are going to delid, you have to go direct die and lap everything. Die lapping made such a difference for me. I was hoping to even out the delta between the cores but that stayed roughly the same.

I got 8 hrs Real Bench stable at 5.3Ghz with a 9900KS and a load voltage of 1.341v (1.470v BIOS). I was at 1.450 BIOS but OCCT large/AVX2 would get errors.

My max core temp was 88c for the 8 hour run, which is 10c lower than 5.2Ghz with 1.296-1.305v under load.
So after you clean up the die, you use a lapping method on the surface, I imagine you wouldn't want to go too deep....

The OCCT stability test is crazy, I was passing Prime95, RealBench, Aida, etc... But OCCT would freeze within 30 seconds or BSOD... Not sure if it's just over the top but I always like to make sure I'm as stable as possible...
02-11-2020 04:28 PM
Sedril The more I think about that direct die the more I want to do it... I'm mainly concerned with damage to the cpu due to the solder, but sounds like that's rare... I don't see anything about the warranty on Rockit88's site, but that is the company I purchased the kit for my 7700k from and it was very well made....

To those that have used this, the frame just holds the CPU in the socket but does not come in contact with the waterblock, correct? I can't tell from the videos and pictures if the CPU die is even with the frame or sits slightly above it... So the entire force would be only on the die.. So I assume you would make sure to not over tighten the waterblock.........
02-11-2020 04:20 PM
bp7178 I really think if you are going to delid, you have to go direct die and lap everything. Die lapping made such a difference for me. I was hoping to even out the delta between the cores but that stayed roughly the same.

I got 8 hrs Real Bench stable at 5.3Ghz with a 9900KS and a load voltage of 1.341v (1.470v BIOS). I was at 1.450 BIOS but OCCT large/AVX2 would get errors.

My max core temp was 88c for the 8 hour run, which is 10c lower than 5.2Ghz with 1.296-1.305v under load.
02-11-2020 03:12 PM
eminded1 just make sure you get a 9th gen intel tool made for i9 9900k, i7, 9700k and i5 9600k.. there all soldered and all same size.
02-11-2020 02:53 PM
Arctucas
Quote: Originally Posted by ntuason View Post
Just do it! I was in your position and it was super easy.
+1.
02-11-2020 02:52 PM
Arctucas
Quote: Originally Posted by Shawnb99 View Post
With Rockit's kit if you damage the CPU they replace it.

Going direct die is the way to go if you're delidding.
+1.
02-11-2020 11:48 AM
ntuason
Quote: Originally Posted by Sedril View Post
That's awesome! I've been a bit too chicken to try direct die just yet...
Just do it! I was in your position and it was super easy.
02-11-2020 11:04 AM
Shawnb99
Quote: Originally Posted by Sedril View Post
If using the correct tool, what would you say the chance is of damage? I'd hate to spend almost $500 and then destroy this chip... On my 7700k it was a no brainer to de-lid... And well worth it... But as much as I'd like to drop 7C, I'd hate much more to break something....
With Rockit's kit if you damage the CPU they replace it.

Going direct die is the way to go if you're delidding.
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