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-   -   visualizing smoothing in mousetester (https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1554228-visualizing-smoothing-mousetester.html)

qsxcv 05-05-2015 05:50 PM

just grabbed a torq x5 from frys.

last year I posted this on esr
Quote:
about this whole smoothing thing: perhaps it is possible to measure.

i have been measuring input lag by colliding an unwired mouse into my g100s and recording videos at 1000fps. example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA0T_o9qQVc

if you look frame by frame, it's pretty evident that the g100s reaches its maximum speed essentially instantaneously (~1ms or less). this owes to the rigidity of the plastic shells of the mice; if i used a rubber ball or something soft to hit the g100s, the transfer of momentum would occur over a much longer timescale.

by looking at a mouse's raw output and plotting vs time, it may be possible to detect smoothing

see this diagram for what I mean:
zQ2Xrxl.png

here is a real plot with MouseTester. i held down mouse1 lightly while slamming another mouse onto the g100s' side.
YWf113k.png

it's not perfect though as the mouse could malfunction during the impact. for example, my logitech m100 (a serious piece of ****) shows the following in mousetester:

http://i.imgur.com/L2QSh6i.png

guess what?


evga torq x5 at 3150dpi

3200dpi

MaximilianKohler 05-05-2015 06:36 PM

Interesting!

CorruptBE 05-05-2015 07:29 PM

Hmmz...

Nice, I actually noticed something similar on some of my mice several months ago but headed no attention to it, assuming it was just something normal.

iceskeleton 05-05-2015 09:28 PM

Have you tested other mice?

FreeElectron 05-05-2015 09:36 PM

Can you please further explain.
And include a definitive definition of "smoothing"
Then logically explain how can we measure the defined smoothing.

qsxcv 05-06-2015 02:11 AM

idk how smoothing is implemented, but the plot of 3200dpi shows that the dsp is doing something like buffering the last 40 or so frames of motion and averaging

FreeElectron 05-06-2015 07:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by qsxcv View Post

idk how smoothing is implemented, but the plot of 3200dpi shows that the dsp is doing something like buffering the last 40 or so frames of motion and averaging
If you want to measure something you have to at least define it.
What i think is a proper definition for smoothing delay is a mouse movement delay that might be caused by excessive processing that may result in abnormal mouse movement.
But that definition is not definitive enough to be able to measure it.

LegoFarmer 05-06-2015 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeElectron View Post

If you want to measure something you have to at least define it.
What i think is a proper definition for smoothing delay is a mouse movement delay that might be caused by excessive processing that may result in abnormal mouse movement.
But that definition is not definitive enough to be able to measure it.
The main consensus around OCN (Or so it seems) is that Smoothing is best defined as post-processing with noticeable delay in tracking. Common in modern sensors to push such high DPI settings.

qsxcv 05-06-2015 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeElectron View Post

If you want to measure something you have to at least define it.
What i think is a proper definition for smoothing delay is a mouse movement delay that might be caused by excessive processing that may result in abnormal mouse movement.
But that definition is not definitive enough to be able to measure it.
maybe measuring is the wrong word... but what the graph shows is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_average#Simple_moving_average
Quote:
Originally Posted by iceskeleton View Post

Have you tested other mice?

only other mice i have are g100s, wmo, ime3.0, g302, g303, and aurora. the aurora's shell is too soft to get meaningful results (flexes by ~1mm easily, which corresponds to ~2ms of contact time). the rest always respond instantaneous. logitech says g302 has 1ms smoothing above 2000dpi, but you can't really see that as usb polling is 1ms

CorruptBE 05-06-2015 06:35 PM

Basically what you mean is that we might be able to see on the graphs if a mouse has smoothing or not but not exactly how much.


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